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Dual Wield Vs Double Hand

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Flyincatz, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Flyincatz

    Flyincatz Well-Known Member

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    Which is better? Dual wield or Double hand?
    These two ability are great to have, but if you only have the resources to obtain only one of them, which ability should you pick?

    Dual Wield : Equipping 2 weapon on both hand , allow user to Attack Twice ( Also affect physical ability )
    E.g : Raging fist will deal 260% when using dual wield instead of 130%

    Double Hand : 50% of Total attack from Equipment will be added as bonus attack

    To compare the two ability, I will be using chizuru, who will be equipped with the current best equipment that we have and calculate the damage with barrage ability.

    Chizuru 5* Dual Wield
    Base Dmg is 120 attack
    Sakura Fubuki (98)
    Murasame (61)
    Tiger Mask (14)
    Black Belt Gi (8)
    Hero Ring 10% attack (12)
    Hero Ring 10% attack (12)

    Total Damage : 120+98+61+14+8+12+12= 325 attack
    Calculation with Barrage (320%) : 325 x (320%x2) = 2 080 Points

    Chizuru 5* Double Hand
    Base Dmg is 120 attack
    Sakura Fubuki (98)
    Tiger Mask (14)
    Black Belt Gi (8)
    Hero Ring 10% attack (12)
    Hero Ring 10% attack (12)
    Double Hand bonus : 132 / 2 = 72 Attack

    Total Damage : 120+98+14+8+12+12+72 = 336 attack
    Calculation with Barrage (320%) : 324 x 320% = 1 075 .2 Points

    Result :
    Dual Wield with barrage : 2 080 Point
    Double hand with barrage : 1 075.2 points
    In term of raw power, double hand is better than dual wield, but dual wield x2 attack is much more superior than double hand.

    Edit 19/7/16 : There is a thread on Reddit which claim that Global version might not be able to stack Double Hand. To avoid any confusions i will be striking off the ''Stacking of Double hand'' until we get official news from the developer.

    Edit 2 : Yup.. Guess it is official... Global version will not be able to stack double hand https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/4tl7aj/support_response_to_doublehand_stacking/


    However, Double hand can be be stack while double hand can't.
    For the fun of it, Let us see how well multiple double hand fare against a single dual wield

    2 Double hand equipped : 264 + 72 + 72 = 408
    Calculation with Barrage : 408 x 320% = 1 305 .6 Points

    3 Double hand Equipped : 264 + 72 + 72 + 72 = 480
    Calculation With Barrage : 480 x 320% = 1 536 Points

    4 Double Hand Equipped : 265 + 72 + 72 + 72 + 72 = 552
    Calculation With Barrage : 552 x 320% = 1 766 .4 Points


    There it is folks.
    Thank you for taking your time in reading this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
    skoshi chingoo likes this.
  2. shabaescaba

    shabaescaba Well-Known Member

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    Are you asking friend, or is this advice :)?
     
  3. Vash426

    Vash426 VIP VIP Supporter

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    You are forgetting Blade Mastery too. If you combine that while equipping two katanas you get the same effect as double hand.
    Double hand = 50% when wielding one weapon and leaving other slot open.
    Dual Wield = double attack (Effectively double the damage vs a 50% bump)

    Also..... blade master + dual wield!!!!!!!!
    That means you not only get the same effect as double hand but by combining it with dual wield you can now have 2 attacks.
    Blade Master = 50% when wielding a katana
    Dual Wield + Blade Master = Double attack plus a 50% damage bump!

    Not to mention.... future proofing. If katanas come out that have status effects.... two of them equipped with dual wield means you have twice the chance to proc that effect.
    However if you only use Double hand... you only get the one chance to proc it.
    Dual wield equals twice the damage and twice the chance to proc if gear allows it.

    So if I could only choose one, the idea of having two different weapons with effects on them or combined with Trust Mastery Blade Master to get a 50% damage increase above what it already has there is no contest and Dual Wield wins every time.
     
  4. Vash426

    Vash426 VIP VIP Supporter

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    Because of what I said above Chizuru is why Chizuru is now the strongest Global unit. Due to this potential. She is limited to short swords and katana anyways so her blade mastery which is amazing, is perfect for her too. You get her dual wield from Zidane and she is a true beast. Her base is at max level 120 ATK plus she gets a skill to add plus 20% attack taking her to around 144. Then you add in the gear which adds to that + dual wield + 50% from Blade Master = an insane attack.

    I have not personally used her yet but I have friends that have her maxed and even using her single attacks and not barrage I have seen damage like 5k from a special on one enemy. Her LB hit for like 11k. She was doing more damage than my 5 mages spamming elemental chains. She is a beast even before dual wield and blade master combo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  5. Flyincatz

    Flyincatz Well-Known Member

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    I am actually writing a comparison between the two ability. sorry for not making it clear ::mog::

    Yeah.. I left other skills on purpose.
    I just want to make the comparison as simple as possible so that it doesn't confuse people on how these two ability works.
     
  6. shabaescaba

    shabaescaba Well-Known Member

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    Very good guide then. Keep up the good work!
     
  7. Vash426

    Vash426 VIP VIP Supporter

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    Yep and now with dual wield and blade master that is the best combo. It is beast mode all the way.
     
  8. Pupu

    Pupu Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Personally I dont believe the customer support he is just using templated answers pretty much common for in game support reps. I was once an in game support rep for SWTOR and when it comes to in game technicalities like skills, abilities and etc. usually developers answers those questions in forums or patch notes some of the in game support reps dont even play the game or did not experience playing the game.

    Going back to doublehand. Its either Doublehand stacking might not be implemented yet or they totally change how doublehand works
     
  9. RyedeR

    RyedeR Well-Known Member

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    As I see it, dual wield really looks better than double hand. But I am wondering how the raw damage is calculated via 2 attacks. I mean is it going to be the general damage seen in our hero stats?or is the damage going to vary based on 2 weapons equipped?

    example
    If I have 1 Murasame in RIght Hand which is +61 attack, lefthand would be Sakurafubuki +98 attack.
    Assume that right hand is the first attack, perform a normal attack.
    Since murasame has lower attack, will it be : 1st attack low damage, 2nd attack high damage?

    I don't have this TM yet and got no idea how it really works given that u can have 2 attacks, that's why I'm asking this question.
    TIA
     
  10. Vash426

    Vash426 VIP VIP Supporter

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    I don't have it either. I just know from reading in the forums about why everyone in JP wants Lightning because she has 5 attacks normally. Just straight 5 attacks! With dual-wield she gets 10! So even though Chizuru does not have that insane number she has two attacks normally. So with dual-wield she will have 4 attacks normally. That's like a regular barrage with out the use of the skill. And don't quote me on this last part but I think when combined with Barrage her attacks instead of being 4 becomes 8 attacks. I could verify this if I remembered where I saw the Lightning info and discussion on the impact of dual-wield on abilities. I will try to find it later. But I do know it doubles a persons attacks and you strike with both weapons. I don't know the order and not sure it really matters in the end. Doubling your attacks in essence doubles your dps. That with things like blade mastery would trump a 50% stack from doublehand. I mean hitting an enemy 4 times with a 50% bump + 20% bump from her other passive skill gives her a 70% increase in damage to all 4 hits which is really strong and what I want to aim for in the end.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016
  11. Vash426

    Vash426 VIP VIP Supporter

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    As far as Doublehand stacking there could be differences between global and JP. It is after all a different company bringing a JP game to the world. For example the upcoming devil event is Global exclusive. So it is possible they changed the rules because the content here is no where near the level of JP yet due to it being newer. So they could have seen Chizuru as OP and to balance her out removed that option. Or they could have removed it in general because using a thing like stacking could make content cake. If all your gear and passives plus buffs determine your damage output and by simply stacking one TM you can increase that exponentially they could have seen it as game breaking and removed it to keep a challenge in the game.
     
  12. Oboi

    Oboi VIP VIP

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    Shouldn't the Dual Wield damage be as follows:

    Total Damage : 120+98+14+8+12+12= 264 attack with Sakura Fubuki
    120+61+14+8+12+12= 227 attack with Murasame
    Calculation with Barrage (320%) : (264 x 320%) +(227 x 320%) = 1,571 Points

    Keep in mind that this wasn't with her +20% ATK passive.
     
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  13. RyedeR

    RyedeR Well-Known Member

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    This is rly about what my question is, if it is combined or the damage varies between 2 different hits... well i think this equation might be a good basis..anyway. thanks for this, as all well knew that dual wield is rly too good of a TM

    time to roll zidane(s) XD
     
    Oboi likes this.
  14. TheGoodDayMan

    TheGoodDayMan Active Member

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    Doesn't dual wield consider one weapon at a time when attacking using a skill or usual attack?

    Also, as a garland owner, am waiting for awakened doublehand (2x bonus from equip) (if chizuru had it, it would hit up to 1267.2 points though. Still leaves DW a bit above)

    Also, if you don't have a lot of good tm weapons, but you have good units that would rather have a good weapon? Ditch DW, put 2h to get the most out of your weapon, and chain the attacks with the other unit? Chiz has 2 attacks, split evenly?
    That's 2 chains, first chain +10% and second +20%, 178,75 ~ 179 + 195 = 374 per attack if you keep up chaining with another chiz. This by barrage ~ 1197 AND you leave a muramase free
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  15. Xyphll

    Xyphll New Member

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    so the real question is how much AP difference is needed for 2-hand to either = or out damage the amount the second hit from DW. I still think DW will beat out 2-hand on the vast majorty of units but for thouse who maybe come with an innate 2-hand (Garland) slaping 2-hand on him with blade master may still out damage DW as 2-hand from alternating sources will stack.
     
  16. Amiricle

    Amiricle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    lol this discussion just gave me flashbacks to FFXI
     
  17. toooskies

    toooskies Well-Known Member

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    Because this got resurrected:

    - The Hero Rings, and other percentage buffs, don't get modified by DH.
    - Gear for DH will never directly outpace DW. You need a 41% increase in ATK to double your damage. For DH's 50% to produce that, your gear (and not materia, and not percentage-based gear) needs to be more than 4/1 better than your innate ATK (including bonuses). Not gonna happen.
    - Innate DH (i.e. 6* Demon Rain), Counters (i.e. Xiao/Snow), and single-attack buffs (i.e. Yun) can change the balance here, and need to be weighed on a case-by-case basis. But the verdict on all the characters mentioned above so far is, you're going to be better off with other damage dealers or other strategies.
     
  18. Kosiciel

    Kosiciel Struggler VIP Supporter

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    As @toooskies said - you will use DH only if you don't have DW/GG available. Potential candidate in the future is Garland 6* with enhancement.
     
  19. TokkiSan

    TokkiSan Member

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    This is the only Dual Wield forum I was able to find, so...
    Does it matter which hand each weapon goes to?
    If I have Enhancer and Chirijiraden, does it matter which hand each weapon goes on? Since Enhancer has higher ATK, should it go on the right hand?
     
  20. Syrus

    Syrus Active Member

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    As far as I'm aware, it doesn't matter. I could be wrong, though
     

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