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EX points discussion.. how does it make you feel?

Discussion in 'General' started by Sustainer, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. FishDJ

    FishDJ Well-Known Member

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    P2p died a long time ago...f2p is an illusion. Greed changed the whole gaming community...don't you just love the days where a 15 dollars subscription will bring you consistent updates and support? The only company i can think of now where players are rewarded for skills and participation is Blizzard.
     
  2. cajual

    cajual Member

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    Yeah, you paraphrased it accurately. That said, I am not in *any* way bashing F2P players that respect the fact they invest nothing into something that provides a very generous ROI in enjoyment and entertainment etc. Heck, someone who spends $5.00 a month is fine by me, it shows respect for the work provided.

    Very simple bottom line for me: Reciprocation.
     
  3. Gsplatter

    Gsplatter Well-Known Member

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    This is a good idea. I'm F2P and have come to terms that I will not get the best units. This is just one more unit I won't get. No big deal, I play with what I've been given.
     
    DarrenRiccs, Rayne_Masaki and cajual like this.
  4. Requiem

    Requiem Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1. Pulling multiple 5 stars is way way way more difficult than pulling 3 star base Cecil, CoD, Exdeath, Bartz and 4 star Refia and Mercedes.

    2. Besides the newly released Ayaka healer on JP, the best healers (Tillith, Aria, Hunter Fina, Refia, Luka) and support (Rikku) have all been 4 stars. Pulling a 4 star is much easier than pulling multiple 5 star bases, even in JP with no troll rainbows.

    3. Yeah, gear and TMRs take a while to get, but you are Guaranteed to do it by investing time. Onion Knight has innate dual wield so don't have to worry about farming that TMR and there's a lot of good equipment and materia TMRs on 3* and 4* base units.

    In the case of Onion Knight, the best weapon for him is his own TMR, sooooo you're set there.

    If you can't see the issue with F2P rerolled accounts being better than whale accounts with the only benefit for older whale accounts being time invested TMRs, I don't know what to say.

    I don't want to sound mean, but I don't think you really understand how powerful Onion Knight is over in JP.

    People have rerolled OK accounts with the hardest trial equipment done already (Gundam, Dark Espers)
     
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  5. Troxny

    Troxny Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They do reciprocate, they spread the game around, and thus more people who would never have heard of it will start playing and some of them will pay.
    The problem is that you get nothing for $5 dollars, so if that's what you want then they have to change the whole shop, lower all the prices a lot, and in the end they will not get as much from the big spenders but a lot more from everyone else.

    And as for welfare, sure, some people are lazy, some people are sick, some people are crazy, and they in return get stuff for "free". By not providing for these people you turn them into beggars, criminals, suicide victims, so if you want a worse world for a little more money then okay. As for those who could provide for the society but choose not to, flaw in the system, you could easily make them do something good for the welfare money they get. I don't mind welfare, I'd rather they stop spending tax money on killing machines and not give companies tax breaks unless their work is for the common good, which is almost never the case. Greed is the biggest problem in this world as I see it.
     
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  6. cajual

    cajual Member

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    A lot of what you say is valid.

    I should have probably not made the comparison, I do not want to digress from my actual point. People who become accustomed to hand outs develop a mentality of entitlement, it is endemic in society and has seeped into the gaming community over the past decade. It is real simple to me; accept your station in life or improve it. Exceptions make up a small percentage, we are talking about a greater majority here.

    That said, I do agree with the gentleman that mentioned rewards being based upon SPENT vs PURCHASED. In the long run it would hardly impact GUMI/ALIM revenue to allow F2P (or near F2P) some minor boon.
     
    Khidir likes this.
  7. Sustainer

    Sustainer The Engineer Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    From a monetization point of view - it seems to make sense to me. No doubt they have run the models/looked at data from other games and like the conversion rate of F2P => P2P conversions using this.

    To assume they would fire this off in the dark without a model/data/information/calculations is a touch myopic.

    There would be a loss of F2P players associated with this, and they would weigh that off against F2P -> P2P conversions as a result. It seems to patch the hole of "I spent $500 on this game and didn't get a single 5* base" - you get both a 5* base unit AND a meta as eff damage unit with some support.

    Gumi exists to make money - the ultimate goal is convert F2P -> P2P players and keep them actively spending. Having a carrot for long term money spent on the game can certainly give a tangible benefit for people actually spending/risking spending cash on the game. Recall FFBE is the result of many years of gacha games that have come before it - a lot of market research/monetization strategies/etc are being utilized here.

    What is one of the current complaints from people not wanting to spend? I can spend $1000 and not get a single 5* base unit - let alone the one I want (See Ziss' latest video). It helps with player confidence they eventually will get something for cash spent, and give them something actually "worth" it for spending their cash.
     
    Requiem, Sparkle and Sorwen like this.
  8. Sorwen

    Sorwen Well-Known Member

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    Once a cobra bit Onion Knight's leg. After five days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.

    Honest to Chuck on that.
     
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  9. Fluffy

    Fluffy Member

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    Also, kiddos, don't forget that Gumi has a lot more overhead on a game like this than, say, Brave Frontier a year after launch - Square needs to get paid for the usage of all of their characters.
     
    DRock likes this.
  10. cajual

    cajual Member

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    I am not referring to their revenue models & forecast. The volume of free Lapis available in the game is insignificant compared to what is purchased. I would be very interested to see how much total Lapis a F2P player could net if they exhausted each available avenue, I would be surprised if it was greater than 100-150k (note this does not include dailies / events over time).

    I spend 50,000 Amazon Coins per banner typically, that is more than most F2P players will earn in their lifetime. I am not sure how familiar you are with the financial modeling behind micro-transactions but ultimately it is based upon a funnel, or pyramid, where the center makes up the majority of your revenue. This range does not include pure F2P, nor does it include Whales - typically both of these demographics combined make up less than 30% of your total YOY revenue.

    That said, I 100% agree with your last statement. This is my first GACHA game, I play both GL and JP and am nearly to a point of refusing to pull on GL. I am use to years of playing games such as MTG, Hearthstone, League of Legends, Overwatch, CS:GO - where the money I invest has value, ROI and often actual equity.
     
  11. Sparkle

    Sparkle Ascended Member

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    If they credit enough of my already made purchases, I'll likely finish the climb to get the EX summons and the unit on my Elza account, which has gone inactive on spending for months now.

    If my IAP account has to start at zero, I think I'll just keep plugging away at my f2p account that has five 5* bases.

    I'm not going to worry too much about the effects it has on JP.

    C'est la vie.
     
  12. Kyriel

    Kyriel Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting system to give some special incentive to buy Lapis and I support it almost fully.

    However, what bugs me is Lorraine as a purchasable-only unit. I don't really care if she's strong or not, the fact that a unit is not available to people who don't spend money in the game (let alone ~$375) to get her is a bit upsetting to me.

    This is where the barrier between real freemium and P2W becomes blurry, even if only a tiny bit. It means that free players and spenders don't and won't play with the same rules anymore.

    A random thought comes to mind as comparison: in Brave Frontier, Frontier Hunter was a monthly (roughly) event where you could increase your permanent Hunter Rank by 1 to 5 points depending on how well you did compared to other players. At each rank up, there was a nice reward, the most memorable ones being story characters, amongst which is the one and only Tilith. But that wasn't up until HR21 that you could finally get her, that meant at least 20 rank up (you start at 1). Average player could rank up HR+3 every month, so 7 months of hard work to get her. For players who wanted her faster (HR+ every month for months), they could use their gem (=lapis) and/or some money for recharging their event orbs (just like in Arena) and get her in 4 months (4*HR+5).

    Conclusion : spenders get things faster and could show off their shiny units while the hype was hot; while other players working slowly but steadily could still get her and enjoy unique rewards but missed the hype train. I think it's genuinely good for both player-bases, spenders and non-spenders. The parameters could be tweaked so big spenders could get the rewards even faster.

    If you want purchase-only exclusivities, there are other sort of goodies that don't segregate spenders from others in terms of gameplay : unique sprites/skins for units, special graphic frames on player or one's companion unit (similar to LoL's ranking bronze/silver/gold/diamond...)...

    Ok, that being said, I don't mind it as much as it seems, but it's a subtle difference that means big if they keep going into that direction.

    There's still plenty of time to enjoy this game before that comes to GL, by then who knows what I and we will think of it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  13. Gronio

    Gronio Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I feel the same.
    It's nice that big spenders should have a reward which is not luck-bound.
    As long as it doesn't make it P2W i don't really care.
    But what bugs me is if they start doing ex-points exclusive units which are above the others...
     
  14. Kenjiro

    Kenjiro Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It seems JP has reached the final stage of its lifetime. F2P games try to milk one last batch before they fell. Given the pattern is same, we have around a year playtime for GL :)
     
  15. Troxny

    Troxny Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I like the idea of skins, but the problem is that they are already doing that. Just look at how many different Finas there are, its just not a different skin, but different unit. So they cant introduce a skin system as long as they keep adding different versions of released units.
     
  16. Zeran

    Zeran Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Obviously rolling 3 5* is more difficult, but plenty of F2P out there haven't managed to pull Tilith, Refia, or rikku either i'm sure. I wont pretend to be an expert on the JP meta since i don't play there, but i've seen a video of OK vs Espers and two of him chaining is incredibly impressive. That said the one i saw seemed to take about the same amount of time as two orlandu so that doesn't seem like a big shift. In any case my point wasn't to marginalize OK, but to point out that the whale's account is likely already performing at such a high level that some F2P getting lucky on rerolls isn't going to surpass his entire team out of the box so it seems like a silly reason to rage quit. Unless maybe he's a very sad and unlucky whale who doesn't already have a bunch of other top meta units.
     
  17. Troxny

    Troxny Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, this kind of thing, it starts with an unit, and soon you can buy exclusive weapons, trust masters and materias for $, I think that's what some of us fear.
     
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  18. Zeran

    Zeran Well-Known Member Supporter

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    lol, we still havent even seen FFVII characters in JP. There's still quite a while left i'd say. Also i've seen games with a lot lower populations hobble along for years so i don't think FFBE is going anywhere
     
  19. jeremyj26

    jeremyj26 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Fuck. All. That.
     
  20. Wreckd

    Wreckd Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't mind it.

    It's a safety net for their big spenders. Because let's look at ziss for example. With this in place, at least he would have had something to write home about.
     

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