1. Looking for an easy collection of all unit reviews done on our forum, on one page?
    Check out the forums Unitdex!
  2. Looking for a quick reference to all the guides and tips that have been posted throughout the forum? Check through the guide index Here.
    If you can't find what you're looking for, use search or make a thread to ask!
  3. Be part of the new campaign rinny launched and earn a new banner on the forum, The Supporter Campaign! - Check out the thread for more details Here.

  4. Interested or play the JP version of ffbe? Join the discussions in our JP section here!.

Refia or Luka?

Discussion in 'Unit Discussion' started by MaxJunior, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. Jvalz

    Jvalz Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Global ID:
    906414874
    Leads:
    Luneth or Refia
    I heard Refia is the one that steal all the chocobos inside this game, she must be a bad girl!

    You must pick Luka!
     
    Sparkle likes this.
  2. DarKnight

    DarKnight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    121
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    I prefer Refia.
    She hugs a chocobo and melts my heart!
     
    Sparkle and Khidir like this.
  3. KWFFBE

    KWFFBE Active Member

    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    127
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Indeed the chances of Refia being lanced or osmosed is quite low especially if you finish an arena fight in a turn or two, but chances are going to increase as people start to make the matera osmose blade to deal with Noctis (or even Dark Fina) or those with multiple copies of them... draining MP from the enemy team significantly improves your chances of a win as it can completely obliterate the oppositions ability to damage you or even stay alive. Golem staff is only popular to a point but can be defended against by using characters with innate defence to status effects or equiping those without with golden acklets, ribbons and similar. However MP drain there is no direct defence to it aside passive MP regen... True that you can use a character like Rosa, Noctis (or similar) to regain group MP but unless it's part of their limit break, they too depend on MP to use the ability to regain MP. So you can see MP drain is more the end all and be all of an Arena fight than golem staff, especially in the case where you are very closely match or overmatched by the opponent. And unlike the single available golem staff, you can potentially equip every character in your team with Osmose blade. I doubt people are going to start fielding teams containing five Dark Finas to status effect anyone to oblivion, but then again I have seen a five man Noctis team in the arena o_O. Here Dark Fina poses more of a problem than Noctis, cause once he's out of MP, he too isn't going to pose a threat unlike Dark Fina who in two turns after an MP drain will be ready to nuke you again or cast distress (one random status effect)

    This is why Luka holds an advantage over Refia in the arena, cause you can equip items to deal with the status effects like petrify, but Refia without the support of a group MP regenerating character like Noctis, Rosa or similar is dead in the water.

    As for losing a fight with Refia being out of MP, it depends heavily on how closely you are matched to your opponent and luck. If both isn't in your favor and you don't have a secondary healer in your arena team, that chance of losing a fight cause Refia has no MP is actually quite high. I've had my Refia pretty much lose her MP the moment I face any team containing Elza in particular. Elza seems much more likely to use lance than Exdeath using osmose. If it wasn't for Cecil in those situations I could have easily lost those fights ::up::

    There's nothing to say later down the line we don't get a trial against some boss that completely drains the MP of your team every turn, at which point you'll be depending on characters like Luka, Lightning and/or Ramza to heal you, as they'll be the only ones to regain enough MP per turn to cast cura or regenerate...

    Heck over a very long fight, Luka is going to hold an advantage over Refia especially if MP regen item are limited or unavailable. Of course if you have somewho who helps regain MP that's not a problem but if you don't Luka is going to win out in this situation.

    Note I'm not saying Refia is worse than Luka, far from it. So as I stated before both Refia and Luka have their niche areas within healing. As such neither has a massive advantage over the other. Although all this becomes a moot point once 6* Tilith arrives. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  4. GreenStinkyLeaves

    GreenStinkyLeaves New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Shutting down Refia is so easy in pvp though. Exdeaths Osmoses and Firions hp/mp steal take it all in 1 go pretty much, so id go for luka just for the regen. 10 turns feel like a whole lot when ur in battle. Then i see ppl saying "if u have a good team it should only take 3 turns to end a battle".. uh yeah, if ur facing a team way weaker than yours. Id say Luka pvp. Oh status alignments.. id prefer them to keep trying to silence me. While they focus on that, my team is getting hits while she keeps curing herself lol
     
  5. Revenge

    Revenge Dark Messenger VIP Supporter

    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Leads:
    Chizuru
    I don't even use a Healer in Arena. Normally i beat it all in the first turn, turn 2 max.
     
  6. SummonerBWM

    SummonerBWM Active Member Supporter

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Global ID:
    527,121,103
    Leads:
    Elza, Maxwell, CoD and Refia.
    Everyone is talking about using Refia over Luka, but in my opinion, I honestly would use Luka when I really need the defense, especially if I have another unit who can boost the team's ATK. I guess since I have Noctis so he can use Link and I tend to carry a mage, I would use Luka for high def against strong trial and event bosses. I also like the fact Luka is there to handle status ailments on all units who suffered from it and she will not waste a turn.
     
  7. Omega911

    Omega911 Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    33
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Luka is OK for now or if you have around 3K HP units :) if you have 5K+ HP units then she is not enough healing power due to lacking dual cast healing where Refia can dual cast Curaja
     
  8. SummonerBWM

    SummonerBWM Active Member Supporter

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Global ID:
    527,121,103
    Leads:
    Elza, Maxwell, CoD and Refia.
    I do not care about dualcast since I do not have it so Refia being able to dualcast curaja is irrelevant to me. A lot of people wants to think about dualcasting. It would be better to think about those who do not have it. Even if I have dualcast for Refia, I would most likely still pick Luka because she is able to heal nad remove status ailments on the whole part at the same time. Refia dualcast Curaja + Esuna, dualcast Esuna + Esuna would still lose to Luka's own heal. Luka also has an aoe regen, Regenerate, a curaja version if you will. Regardless if Luk is unable to dualcast those abilities, I see that a small con compared to what Refia will struggle with in addition to unable to restore her own hp and mp.
     
  9. vcrisant13

    vcrisant13 Active Member Supporter

    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    92
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Don't forget Refia's Full Life - Luka will need 3+ turns to restore a KOd ally to full health while Refia will only need 1. This is why dual cast is big in this conversation - if a boss KOs two of your units, Refia can bring them back to full health in 1 turn. Luka will need to do at least 2 raises and 2 of her heal abilities. If she has dual cast, that's still 3 turns. By the time you get to the heals, there's a good chance those units will be KOd again.

    Luka does have the edge on status ailments, since Refia only has esuna and her LB.
     
  10. Revenge

    Revenge Dark Messenger VIP Supporter

    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Leads:
    Chizuru
    Even dual cast curaja will not be good enough for the future trials like the Robot one.

    In fact, there is only one healer that is future proof for the current jp meta.
     
    YannC likes this.
  11. YannC

    YannC Member

    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    44
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Global ID:
    839139517
    Leads:
    Gilgamesh

    Welp, or is she?
     
  12. Omega911

    Omega911 Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    33
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    you can't heal enough when your units are K.O. lol this is why you need Rikku for that
    we are talking about Luka and Refia so Tilith is on another level of healing power, no healers can come close to her due to Full Recovery!
     
  13. Revenge

    Revenge Dark Messenger VIP Supporter

    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Leads:
    Chizuru
    Exactly. I was just pointing out that even Dual Cast Curaja will be a thing of the past pretty soon. With most of the char's being able of getting 6k+ of HP, only a full recovery will be viable. Rikku + Tilith will be the broken chars that will save many battles, including the Robot one. With both, anything is possible.
     
  14. Mbyst

    Mbyst Active Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Vice versa what others doing the same to you
     
  15. Sorwen

    Sorwen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,067
    Likes Received:
    280
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    The problem with a good part of what your saying isn't that it isn't true it is the fact this isn't PvP. If you were facing a player that is going to maximize his advantages every turn then there are some valid counters and concerns, but vs AI and what other active players are using and equiping on the teams most of them are only a conscern less than 5% of the time. Setup wise most players are concerned with wins not losses since losses don't affect your rank so they gear more for attack than waste limited room for complex defense(or even something as simple as all protect against petrify) that an attacking team generally doesn't need. Most players can overcome a single units advantage.

    They also have to equip in mind with the fact that don't know what is coming so you can't focus on just beating a singular set of tactis. The other really big part is the AI has to decide to use any single ability amongst all the abilities it has. It will use some tactis some times, but nothing overly complicated(it will not even prioritizes lance, as you mention, on unites that have that as an innate osmose attack). Osmosing every unit is a valid attack tactic for a player, but next to useless in the hands of the AI(which most of the time will not use equipped abilities. Even multiple units AI teams will not use the best tactic for those units a majority of the time.

    Refia offers the best spread available without sacrificing what she needs to do. The only issue that is a concern for her is when the block out white magic or if she doesn't mesh with your team composition and lockout/team can affect Luka as well.

    As for long fights sure Luka would be good with refresh and so would a few other healers(Rosa has the ability to not only recover for herself but her team and so does Noctis) or Tanks or DPS or support or Mage or or or. I'm not saying you should never use another unit or ignore leveling other options(I've leveled Lenna, Rosa, and will eventually level Roeslia and Santa Roselia). I'm saying if I had the choice of one healer or if I didn't know the situation going in right now Refia is the better choice. If a person has Refia she should be the priority for 6*. If a person has Refia then the only healer they should waste valuable resources on(espeically F2P or limited dolphins) would be trying to get is Tilith 6* who we can't get yet(and T5 isn't available off banner). Unless they are a Whale. And a Whale should likely be trying to get just about every unit anyway in case of advantages that sometimes do come up.
     
  16. Revenge

    Revenge Dark Messenger VIP Supporter

    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Leads:
    Chizuru
    The AI is dumb, so whats the problem?
     
  17. KWFFBE

    KWFFBE Active Member

    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    127
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    I'm not disagreeing with you that Refia has her strengths and likewise Luka has hers too, Refia without elemental esper can not do any damage on her own. Luka can, as long as the enemy isn't highly water resistant. Not only that Luka can actually heal disease which Refia can not, that 10% stat decrease will not seem like much outside of a high powered team but the more powerful your team the more that actually hurts.

    I choose to mention the arena to highlight the issue with Osmose/lance because that is where you are most likely to encounter it. Granted it can be uncommon to have Refia lanced on turn one, however it's not a rare occurance on the 5% level, certainly not in my experience, it's close to one in every four encounters that contain Exdeath or Elza, chance rockets if there are multiple copies of them. Either luck has favored you or it has completely unfavoured me when encountering Exdeaths and Elzas (think there was some 5* character that lanced me too forgot who though)... But when it does happen, you essentially have a wet noddle on your team because Refia can not do anything but hit for like 2 points of damage. Or maybe I play the arena too much to notice it happen frequently enough that I consider it a potential problem. Fortunately as most arena contests end in a turn or two it's never been a massive problem but when it doesn't, that's when you realise you were better off with Luka than Refia.

    In the arena I'm not 100% certain a heal lock out will block Luka's special priestess miricle, but it certainly won't be affected by a white magic lockout as it's a special and not a spell.

    Taking it away from the Arena, there was one trial, I remember the boss or mobs draining your MP, think it was the one with the big plant! In that situation Luka would have been better than Refia especially if your team required a lot of healing before taking all the various parts down. Not only that if you look at the current event the exploration nature of those, if conserving ethers and the like are an issue, Luka is going to be a bigger advanatage than Refia.

    You can not assume every player has access to Noctis or even Rosa. Group MP regenerating characters seem especially thin on the ground when you look at 3* base characters, I'm actually struggling to think of one right now. However on the note of accessibility, the one thing I have not considered in this debate is trust meters, primarily because not all players are going to have them. But when you do, then Refia moves miles ahead of Luka regardless of Luka's innate MP regen as you can't use dual cast on Luka's goddess miracle. So here if you put this TM consideration in then yeah I agree with you that Refia is the better investment. However not everyone is going to devote their time to TM farming

    However all that aside, my major current point of contention right now is that the weakness' in both the individual healers' kits, is that with Luka you can make up for it with items (e.g. gold anklet, ribbon etc), but with Refia you can not (currently there's no item that gives MP regen per turn)

    As for Tilith, I completely forgot to mention Rikku, although not strictly a healer she literally outclasses every other healer out there, and unlike Tilith she's not a limited character... Between those two they would be better options than either Refia or Luka. Rikku is just plain ridiculous, she's like Noctis in terms of versatility but on steriods!!!
     
    Sparkle likes this.
  18. DarKnight

    DarKnight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    121
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Exactly. Rikku, the real OP unit and she is so waifu. ::toad::
     
  19. Horus

    Horus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2016
    Last question about Luka vs Refia. Which TM to grind if you have many of them?
     
  20. MaxJunior

    MaxJunior Member Supporter

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Global ID:
    605.372.790
    Leads:
    Noctis
    Rank:
    56
    Dualcast is very important
     

Share This Page