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7* Basch or 7* WKN

Discussion in 'Unit Discussion' started by rav, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. rav

    rav Ascended Member

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    I already have a WKN and will most likely use the FFUoC for another WKN.

    I also have Basch and would like to UoC him to 7*.

    Which one is more viable or future proof?
     
  2. Absolem

    Absolem "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Do you have any 7* physical cover tank ? If not, I would say Basch. His versatility is what makes him great.
    On the other side WKN is a better magic tank, and can be used as a provoker, you can go for him if that's what you need.
     
  3. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    WKN has peaked already with his 7* and enhancements, he can only fall off from here. Basch is a very good cover tank as is without enhancements so he can only get better.

    Use your ffuoc for Kryla's TMR which is pretty much bis materia for any mag tank.
     
  4. YannC

    YannC v00d00 VIP

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    His enhancements are here, pretty lame

    https://exvius.gg/jp/units/basch/

    And no, he can never compare to Noel
     
  5. Isaac

    Isaac Ascended Member

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    They are both awesome and about equally awesome at that. I would do the FFUoC on on wkn because there is not a better use for it if you do not have a 7 magic tank. 7 magic tank and 7 willhelm/Siegfried/mramza are the two most important positions on the team in my opinion. They are worth using resources. If you can get one of these positions (7 magic tank here ) with the FFUoC, that is best use.
     
  6. Saudade

    Saudade Member

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    Just a side note, If you have I.Nichol then you can turn WKN into a physical provoke/cover tank =]
    Does take up an extra slot though but then WKN can still tank pretty well as a phys tank
     
  7. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    Really? Self 100% def/spr buff and 100% def/spr break resist on the appropriate covers, and +40% def/spr+charm immunity on Loyal Spirit+2 with +40% HP if it's a light shield is bad?
     
  8. Nimbus3

    Nimbus3 "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    This is actually quite a tough question, but you should realistically consider their function and purpose, and depending on your units, you may even be able to run them in tandem with one another.

    Unit Summary
    Basch
    can cover Physical and Magical AOE damage but lacks any form of ST Provoke innately. His secondary role is to Break either AOE or ST, of which he gains W-Breaks (ST) at 7*. His counter can help restore his own MP.

    White Knight Noel can only cover Magical AOE damage, but he also has a stellar Provoke skill, which once enhanced provides both Physical and Magical TYPED mitigation which will stack with your support's applied General mitigation. His secondary role is to magic chain / DPS although his spells are weak and honestly seem best used for off-turn chaining. His counters can deal damage, but likely not enough to do anything too series in a standard trial (from my experience).

    Basch vs White Knight Noel
    When you put them next to each other on paper, they share one thing in common: Magical AOE Cover. WKN offers an 80% cover chance whereas Basch offers a 75% chance. Everything else that they do is pretty much completely different than the other unit.

    WKN can likely be more bulky than Basch, especially if using his enhanced Provoke skill with the type mitigation. You can also pair them together and use Basch for AOE Cover and WKN for ST Provoke. WKN may come in handy for off-turn Tornado or Freeze chaining if you're using these chains and want your supports to help out.

    Basch has several positives such has his amazing equipment selection, his ability to pivot both physical and magical covers and his new skills at 7* which give him some pretty solid team support at the cost of his LB (which sucks anyway). He has also yet to receive enhancements, and ours in GL may end up surpassing that of JP, but we won't know until it happens.

    In the end of the day, I think they're both stellar units. Basch is swept under the rug because he simply isn't A.Rain, Charlotte or even Lilith to a degree, but this does not mean he is a bad unit. People are still using WoL to this day, and Basch is nearly a direct upgrade to him. However, he has a lot more team support and self-sustain at 7* which adds to his versatility. I used Basch since his release for a long time, only to be replaced by A.Rain, Beryl or Lilith due to not having a 7* form. There are many battles which may cause you to switch up your units - and Basch can still find a place in most team comps and current trails.
     
  9. YannC

    YannC v00d00 VIP

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    Yeah, 100% buffs are useless unless you don’t have a buffer, charm immunity Noel has it too, break resist just use a support. He doesn’t have one thing a tank needs that’s tankiness. I don’t know if you know Noel’s kit at all.
     
  10. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    I'm aware of WKN's kit, I just don't like it. Too much mag damage skills that people seem to think is a great idea to focus on so most of the WKN in my FL are garbage that have 1900 mag but crap for spr and can't tank for shit.

    With self 100% buff and break resist you could potentially get away without a buffer since most newer DPS have self buffs anyway that are better than what support can provide.
     
  11. GerardRosario

    GerardRosario Well-Known Member

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    @Talien you’re already negatively biased towards WKN because you don’t like his kit.

    OT: The thing that makes WKN so good as one person mentioned is that you can stack 3 different types of damage mitigation on him and he has the games most powerful provoke. So he just refuses to die lol

    Instead of people focusing on his magic capabilities which are a nice bonus for slot efficiency, they should focus more on what makes him an absolute monster brick wall.
     
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  12. rav

    rav Ascended Member

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    have a 7* Wilhelm
     
  13. rav

    rav Ascended Member

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    already have 2 Kryla
     
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  14. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    2 is good, 3 is better. Probably the only unit currently in GL where it's a good idea to pull soley for the TMR, and has a real use for more than 2 of that TMR.
     
  15. Awerinc

    Awerinc Ascended Member Supporter

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    WKN is the more future proof unit by far.

    And just to compare then to put it in perspective.
    You said you got Wilhelm so that makes the phys cover on Basch pretty much obsolete since Wilhelm is just straight up stronger so I'll focus on the mag tank and secondary roles.

    For magic tanking WKN wins hand down, he's just that much bulkier then Basch. Reaching higher stats easier and can add Type Mitigation on top of it making it impossible for Basch to keep up. And even when taking Basch future enhancements into account unless they do something drastic with them he still won't catch up.

    Using my own gear in ffbeequip as a basis and taking the extra 20% SPR/HP Basch would get from enhancements into account, (by increasing buffs/item world enhancements) WKN could get hit with 60% breaks and his M.eHP would still be higher then Basch, and that's without adding his type mitigation.


    As for their Secondary Roles, Basch can serve as a breaker or a buffer.

    His breaks are great, and will be even better with enhancements, however breaks on a tank is in my opinion very overrated. They're good for emergency use but going forward we're going to need breaks to be up on turn 1 and that's something a tank simply can't do since they need to cover/provoke so you'll want your breaks either on a dedicated support unit or on a dps.

    As for his buffs, they're mediocre at best. 120% def/spr with an okayish heal on top is decent but it's nothing that can't be easier gotten from other sources like a support unit or hell even from 3* fenrir.


    For WKN his secondary roles are Provoke Tank, Buffer, Magic Chainer and Magic Support.

    Don't think I need to say much about his provoking, he's simply the strongest provoker currently available.

    His buffing, as with Basch they're okay at best, 150% SPR/DEF/MAG and 40% MP from his LB. Beeing tied to his LB makes it harder to keep up but they are stronger then Basch and the MP is in my opinion better than the HP, but again buffs are better gotten from other sources anyways.

    The magic chaining isn't very impressive but at least the option is there, the dmg is low but the potential here lies in chaining together with another support unit on off turns (Rem for Tornado, Seaside Nichol for Freeze for example) making it more viable to bring a finisher/solo dps unit on your team.

    As for the Magic Support, this is based around the fact that he has Dualcast in his kit instead of Dual Black. By equipping him with certain espers/gear he can be have some very flexible support spells. Equip him with Phoenix and he can dualcast Raise, give him Carbuncle and he can cast 3 different barga spells together with a dispel or Cura if needed. Yes it's depending on equipment but it's a forgotten aspect of his kit.

    TL;DR: WKN is more future proof, he's simply stronger at what he does and more flexible in his secondary roles even when taking Basch future enhancements into account.

    Also using a regular UoC on Basch would in my opinion just be a bad idea when you can choose WKN from a FFUoC. Basch is a great unit but he's already outclassed by other units in his role while WKN will most likely stay the top dog for quite some time. Regular UoC can be used on much stronger units down the line while WKN from the FFUoC is one of, if not the strongest pick overall.
     
  16. happysavage

    happysavage Ascended Member

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    If you’ve got 7 star Wilhelm I’d just get WKN. Basch has great versatility but cannot compare to Willie as a physical cover tank for tankiness or WKN as a magical cover tank for tankiness. I have all three currently and I haven’t even 7 starred Basch yet. Save your UoC for now and if you ever need Basch for a specific trial then UoC him then but honestly if we get to that point I think there’s a good chance there’ll be an even better tank that you can UoC. Also, if you don’t need WKN right now you could wait and see if Chow is really awesome, but we might not know how good he is until after the FFUoCs expire. But WKN is a monster tank who is almost unkillable as both a magic cover or provoke tank, so he’s totally worth using the FFUoC on in my opinion. I would have done so myself, but I had 200 tickets, so I just burned tickets until I got him on the Christmas banner.
     
  17. victor sant

    victor sant "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Basch enhancements are very lame though.
     
  18. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    Presuming they aren't changed for GL, which may or may not happen. We all know how gumpi likes to throw us a curve ball sometimes just so they can feel justified saying GL and JP are different games. But either way I'm quite happy with the listed upgrades to his cover abilities and Loyal Spirit.
     
  19. victor sant

    victor sant "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    But then you are throwing UoC on speculation. UoC are too much valuable for a "maybe". Assuming things will be the same or worse the always the safe route.
     
  20. Macrossman18

    Macrossman18 Well-Known Member

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    I have Basch, Merc Ramza, Demon Rain, and WKN.

    Unfortunately, Basch never gets used. Between Demon Rain and WKN, all the damage is managed by both of them well enough.
     

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