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About killers...and damage?

Discussion in 'General' started by SkipDrake, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. SkipDrake

    SkipDrake Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So I recently got more into these as I'm thinking 50%-125% Esthers damage boost is prolly huge! I got Dark Knight Cecils TMR for Esther for the Man eater part and gonna use Diablos as he has it and the + version....

    now my reasoning and the big part of my question is is THIS how yall manage to damage the trail bosses so well?

    I fight Scorn of Gilgamesh....or say Asura....2 Esthers....each 2800-3000+ atk... LB damage materia....check...

    maaaan, I got a good chance here!

    and then...

    Sylvie buffs, Loren breaks...imbue/imperil.....
    2 Esthers massive chain their limit bursts
    tink think tink...poking boss with a stick. doesn't even take off 5% of their HP.
    boss wipes us out with ease despite both dodge/provoke tank, migitation, magic tank all at once....party takes 30000+ damage a hit...

    I find it all too hard in this game! and with people saying it so easy....? so I'm thinking about how on earth people do the sort of damage they do. Are killers the answer? I never took em seriously, but it looks like they big towards it?

     
  2. Kiramon

    Kiramon VIP VIP

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    They’re Big when it comes to 1 shotting, yes.
     
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  3. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    I would say, Killer is probably part of the answer. Killer has a huge impact on dmg output. I cannot say for others, but in my case, I will make space for Killer sources when applicable. I rarely use Titan or Fenrir on my dmg dealers if I want to maximize dmg output. On the other hand, I often use espers the the right Killer, including Carbuncle or Golem on phy dmg dealer. I personally value 50% Killer way higher than 60% ATK materias in most cases (I rarely have space to use 60% ATK materia even. Between Elemental/Ailment resistance and Killers, I usually left with less slot than what I want to use already.) Soemthing that may puzzle you, a unit with 2500 ATK and 50% Killer will deal about the same dmg as a unit with 3062 ATK without Killers on single-type enemies.
     
  4. SkipDrake

    SkipDrake Well-Known Member Supporter

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    yeah the killers boost the total damage by % afaik so they would be more useful than the atk amount. I found I get close to 200% man eater with my setup once I learn man eater + and this Is without the man eater materia so for enemies like those 2 should really be helpful.

    I have summer whip and can't beat Gilgamesh....lol its that darn genji bow he uses and/or some other attack as he eats thru any tank I throw at him...or the whip user one or the other.
     
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  5. Tamamo05

    Tamamo05 "Hall of Fame" Member

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    For me the math/decision is basically
    x% Killer goes to total attack. If proc total damage increased by x% killer.

    x% attack goes to base stats. Even 60% is probably "just" 100+ more ATK to potted units.
    Quite huge, yes, but compared to killers it pales in comparison.

    Even for chaining, if I put a killer on esther, I dared to clicked my own esther second despite losing on the atk e.peen.
     
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  6. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    Have you considered trading off more ATK for survivability? Like, dropping an offensive meteria for something that give the dmg dealer more defense or HP? Maximize a dmg dealer for dmg output only may not be a good idea anymore fot these upper end trials. A dead dmg dealer won't do you any good.
     
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  7. Wdiggums

    Wdiggums VIP VIP

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    You’re a good part of the way there, having summer whip. Have ms nichol or ss nichol AND a healer with leviathan attached ( needs to be trained to have violent current ) seabreeze dark fina (100% water imperil). A cid or Regina . Your provoke tank and a breaker. Tank provokes, sbdf whips, cid ( dispel lance ) dispels , breaker breaks, ms or ss nichol buffs, healer picks nose or casts reraise which ever you prefer xD ( can also dispel if not using cid ). Round two tank uses elemental damage item. Sbdf whips. Healer heals. Supports support cid jerks around. Rnd 3, tank uses element damage item, healer heals sbdf whips ms or ss nichol imbue water to cid or Regina ( if cid use his cool down here ) breaker breaks etc. rnd four tank uses item. Sbdf imperils water, cid spinespiller jump move, healer heals breaker breaks etc ms nichol dances around. Rnd five gilga only retaliates between ends because you hit him with three items... ms nichol dual cast flood ( wait to touch it off ) healer uses violent current ( chains with flood ) ... touch ms nichol and leviathan user ( healer ) to start chain wait a few moments till chain in full swing and drop cid by touching him... say goodbye to gilga xD
     
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  8. insaneddie

    insaneddie Ascended Member

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    What I did for my alt account, I put lilith with summer whip on. If you have a second damage dealer for yourself to chain with, I can set this up for you? She is able to live through most of the onslaught. Just remember (if i recall correctly) DO NOT summer whip on phase 2. I think that was the phase you want to avoid elemental hits.
     
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  9. epath

    epath Active Member Supporter

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    maybe look a little closer into the boss mechanic in the guide? as it helps me thru some difficult content.
     
  10. SkipDrake

    SkipDrake Well-Known Member Supporter

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    oh while we are on the topic of Gilgamesh.... it's so weird! no matter what migitation I have on, sometimes he hits normal, other times his damage will be so high I will surely lose. I have no idea why this happens...hits that do 250 dmg to my tank will go as high as 5000s and genji bow will do 500-1100 each his rather than 200s I noticed this when I changed my healer from folka to ayaka on a different attempt. Sylvie does phys/magic migitation and I dispelled him/broke his atk...i might be missing something??
     
  11. epath

    epath Active Member Supporter

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    dispel, break-rebreak, and seal elements every turn should tame him, a bit. i fail to see any other reason other than that.
     
  12. kurizu

    kurizu さぁフィナ...その力で前に進むのです VIP Supporter

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    That statement alone shows me the reason why you deal so low damage.

    2800-3k Esther means owner of the Esther have no idea how to build her... but outside that example.
    Killers are multiplicative modifier, meaning even small amount of them have huge impact on damage. Esther is also a special case where you don't want to focus on ATK but on LB... so yes properly geared Esther toward a certain type boss should go around 2500-2600 atk... with LB stacked and proper killers used she will deal around 5-6x more damage.
     
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  13. TheKillingJoke

    TheKillingJoke Shenaniganator VIP

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    Gilgman has 3 phases. First phase you have to hit him with certain elements, second phase you shouldn't - third phase you should.
    If you don't follow this, he retaliates with serious elemental damage. You best look it up on the wiki or watch a Video by THE SINZAR.

    AS for Esther: She needs LB Damage gear, + TDH Gear, because her main damage skill is her LB. Heart Overcoming Hatred, War Goddess' Insignia are loved by Esther. First one you get as TMR reward from Kyanos, the second from the Asura Esper Fight. You probably will awe bricks if you see the damage boost with those items in comparison to a pure attack Esther :)
     
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  14. SkipDrake

    SkipDrake Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ahh, so seems I learned something bout Esther...now I can better gear her for LB. I got kyanos tmr but not from Asura yet as she seems to act odd as well. (Ill follow the guide to avoid her retaliations, but sometimes I could swear she uses stuff like hexaslash fury and kills us all even when I did stuff right, ether way she goes severe overkill and wipes me)

    this is what's weird tho...the massive Gilgamesh over kill happens on the first turn. He uses tsubame gaeshi on willhelm for 2500-5000 dmg. in such case all his attacks are overkill and seem to stay that way. I've had it do 200-500 damage before so I'm not sure what the deal is. i know most of his attacks do hybrid damage...i might have to keep testing but 40 nrg a test....eeps

    I'm totally getting my ass kicked every attempt....lol
     
  15. TheKillingJoke

    TheKillingJoke Shenaniganator VIP

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    At Asura:
    I had a similar impression on her trial. Luckily the heroes survived it. Took me 6-7 attempts to beat her.

    Gilgamesh & Hybrid Damage:
    His hybrid damage was heavy. i got it under controll after equipping for HP*DEF and then reequiping the whole group for 600-800 spr and def, then used spr & def buffs of 120% and mitigation. That helped to get his damage down. if it helps, here's my group and how the fight went:

    Group in the builder:
    https://ffbeEquip.com/builder.html?server=GL#7b26b870-bd96-11e9-9d66-5b7bd6bc7eb8

    Short:
    6* Maritime Strategist Nichol - HP*SPR - 13.000 HP, 700 SPR, 300 DEF, Lakshmi
    Folka - HP*SPR - 13.000 HP, 1100 SPR, Waterweapon, Carbuncle
    Loren - HP*SPR*DEF - 12.000 HP, 700 DEF, 700 SPR, Necrodagger, Lion Saber, Asura
    Sieghard - 100% Evade - Genji Shield, 14.000 HP, 800 DEF, 600 SPR, Bahamut
    Esther - Absolute Raikiri - 12.000 HP, 500DEF, 300 SPR, Diabolos, element-neutral 2-handed weapon
    Random friend Esther, Diabolos
    As many element neutral espers as possible, so there are no negative element resistances on your group.

    Turn 1

    Folka - Dispel
    Loren - 50% Break ATK/MAG
    Nichol - Buff + Mitigation
    Esther - Combat Overdrive + Shock embrace
    Sieghard - Cover

    Turn 2

    Folka - Heal
    Loren - /
    Nichol - Refill Mana
    Esther - Chain Bolting Strike
    Sieghard - Provoke
    - Esther LBs was full, Gilg at 83% hp

    Turn 3
    Folka - Heal
    Loren - /
    Nichol - Buff + Mitigation
    Esther - Combat Overdrive
    Sieghard - Cover

    Turn 4
    Esther - LB - Gilga dies.
     
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  16. Kaladin

    Kaladin "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I do this too. Adv.5 is better, imo, than a 50% ATK materia simply because of the boost in defense. Chocobo Adventure is a good one as well since it has 20% HP on top of 30% all stats. The loss in damage is negligible compared to the survivability increase.
     
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  17. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    100% agree. I'm seriously considering using blank moogle for another Chocobo Adventure (my 3rd) even. Once the offensive stats is high enough, 50% more ATK doesn't really add much to the total dmg anymore. The time I need to spend reviving dmg dealers and/or let dmg dealer defends costs my more dmg loss than these materias.
     
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  18. Kaladin

    Kaladin "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I'm thinking about using a blank moogle for C.A. too. I'm hoping to get another from the follow up tickets when we get the bulk of those...
     
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  19. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    LoL, we are waiting for the same thing then. 3 more days!
     
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  20. Yunny

    Yunny "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Just to add onto what has already been said here, this is also a helpful video :):
     
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