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Avalanche's Jessie should've been NV

Discussion in 'Rants, Raves and Accomplishments' started by Axwind, Jul 20, 2021 at 11:10 AM.

  1. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    Yet again, Jessie and the Avalanche trio get less than the other FF7 characters. The Turks get NV representation through Reno, but the trio gets dumped on despite Jessie being one of the most popular characters in FF7R - beating out everyone, including Reno, in Famitsu's popularity contest last year aside from Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith and being the top secondary character by far in a survey of 14,000 fans across all three regions. Yet she's given a measly 7* unit that probably hardly anyone'll use unless by some miracle it gets an NV awakening at some point down the line, which I really hope it does.

    I'm just tired of Jessie always getting less simply because she's not one of the "golden girls" or (currently) a PC. There are some NPC's, like her, that deserve to get just as much as the PC's do. And I don't think it's right that one group (the Turks) gets NV representation while for some arbitrary reason another popular group (the Avalanche trio) doesn't. It reeks of favoritism and old-style thinking. And I'm sick of Jessie always getting less than Aerith and Tifa. Just ONCE I'd like to see her be treated as an equal to them and get everything that they do. Just ONCE. No more being overshadowed and forgotten.

    I hope Jessie's unit gets an NV awakening at some point and doesn't stay stuck at the now-useless 7* tier. And I also hope she gets a true NV base unit of her own someday, and as the featured unit on the banner that it appears on, maybe even with a CG limit burst, though I know that part is unlikely. Gumi violated the "only the main protagonist & antagonist of an FF game get the CG limit burst" rule to give them to Aerith and Tifa, who should never have gotten them at all because of that rule. So if they're going to ignore that rule, then they should ignore the "NPC's never get them" rule as well and allow certain NPC's like Jessie (say, one per FF game) to get those CG limit bursts and the rest of the PC treatment - NV base unit, CG limit burst, featured banner, intro quest, etc. All of it.
     
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  2. Kaladin

    Kaladin "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with anything you said in particular, but to play devil's advocate, Jesse is technically a side character while Aerith and Tifa are main characters. That could have something to do with their decision.
    I do like Jesse, esp in the remake where she actually got some story time dedicated to her so seeing her as a useful unit would have been nice. :D
    However, we have so many NV units already that i'm afraid that if they had made her into a NV, she wouldn't be "good enough" for the meta and therefore forgotten. Just speculation of course ::up::
     
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  3. Seph1roth5

    Seph1roth5 Ascended Member

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    didn't like jessie at all, they should've kept her as a background unimportant character so I didn't have to waste time going to her stupid house for dinner lol.
     
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  4. Kaladin

    Kaladin "Hall of Fame" Member

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    and Cloud didn't even get to eat. he had to sneak around and burglar the house instead lol
     
  5. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    Being a "side" character shouldn't have made ANY difference. It's time that distinction stopped being a qualifier for who gets what and how much. She's well-liked, and at least if she got an NV she'd be at the same tier as the other girls. No more "side character jail" for her and others like her. And you forget that Beatrix went from a barely used 7* to one of the best units in the game with her NV awakening. So Jessie's NV CAN be done well and be made useful for the meta. Better to give her a chance at usability than no chance at all.

    Fortunately, most people don't automatically discriminate against any character that isn't a PC/villain, though many of them do automatically think of them differently even though they shouldn't. I doubt you ever gave Jessie a fair chance to be liked just as much as the other girls or did anything to compensate for the inherent disadvantage she faces being stuck in their shadow and being (currently) unplayable. You come off as shallow and biased against NPC's with a comment like that, and it proves you didn't even try to understand the story and what was going on. Or her character, for that matter.

    Did it ever occur to you that Jessie was aware Cloud didn't get to take part in the dinner and that her offer to have him over and make him a pizza was, in part, her way of making it up to him? And did you know that the English translation was botched and far less accurate than the Japanese and European versions, where Cloud was overall much nicer to her? He never called her desperate or told her to let go, for example, and didn't tell her that saving her was just doing his job - what he really said was that he'd already been paid, so an extra reward wasn't necessary, which conveys an entirely different feel to the scene, where he's trying to politely refuse instead of brush her off.

    And Wedge's warning was also mistranslated, because in every other language besides English (including the original Japanese), it was directed at women in general, not Jessie specifically. Which makes Wedge look a little better for not stabbing his friend in the back despite how the faulty English localization portrays it. And also in Japanese and the other languages, there are clear romantic undertones in Cloud and Jessie's final scene together in the pillar that were not retained in the English version - again, bad translation. She says, "You saved me again..." and he replies "I'll save you as many times as you need."

    Anyway, Jessie should get an NV awakening for her unit at some point and/or a true NV unit of her own. Gumi should give her at least that much. It's not fair that one non-PC FF7R character group gets NV representation but not another. The trio needs to stop being given less all the time. Jessie is one of the most popular characters in FF7R, and it's time SE and Gumi started treating her like it. The PAK figure sets and new render are a good start, but she deserves to have more.
     
  6. hotaru251

    hotaru251 "Hall of Fame" Member

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    i mean..turks havent had much stage time this early.

    Rno specifically has been beloved since original game. he got soem personality.
     
  7. Shr

    Shr Arena Grand Champion Arena Grand Champion Spooky Arena Runner Up S3 VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S2 Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    My 5 cents on that character:
    Who?
    I had to Google who she was (played the game more than 20 years ago so other than the main cast my recollection of everyone in the game is fuzzy at best)
    And honestly, at least to me she is nobody i would remember from that game.
    Like really, she is not a side character, she is a background character, an extra, the equivalent of goon #5 in a movie, at least in the original game, i have not played the remake or plan on playing it. I personally don't play remakes or remasters if i played the original.
    I think the only reason she got a 5* rarity is because according to google she gets a bigger part in the remake (goes from goon #5 to goon#2 with a speaking part) but she should have gotten a 4* or 3* rarity imo.
     
  8. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    Yes, I know he has. And my point is that, despite getting just about as much screen time as the Turks in the remake, the trio gets less attention overall, which is wrong. The prior history alone shouldn't matter. What was brought with the remake should be factored in as well.

    Then that proves you know nothing about FFVII. SE doesn't give nobody characters PAK figure sets, and they're giving Jessie THREE. She's a fan favorite now and one of the most popular characters in the remake, #4 overall - beating out all the other characters including the Turks, Sephiroth, Rufus, AND a PC (Barret) with only Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith ahead of her. She's a lot more than you give her credit for. The remake greatly expanded her role and importance, and the OG is NOT a true representation of how she stands now. And it's also given her a chance for survival, so she's very likely to be back in Part 2. You can't go by just the OG anymore. The remake is much too different.
     
  9. Shr

    Shr Arena Grand Champion Arena Grand Champion Spooky Arena Runner Up S3 VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S2 Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    No, that proves i know nothing nor care about the remake.
    As i said, i actively ignore remakes and remasters if i played the original, i do not want to reward companies that just release the same game ad nauseam. I rather they make a new game and not a nostalgia based cash grab (and yes, i know that ffbe is mostly that but at least it has an original story and characters)
    She is an insignificant character in the original game with a tiny, forgettable part that ends with her death, feel free to prove me wrong.
    I don't care now or ever will about the remake.
    If they decided to give her a bigger part and maybe not kill her this time, i also don't care, that doesn't make her deserving of being an NV, there are plenty of more memorable characters in the whole franchise that will never get it. I don't want gumi/alim to dilute the NV pool and banners with more units i don't care about but they will do whatever they will do.
     
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  10. Seph1roth5

    Seph1roth5 Ascended Member

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    Damn, I guess we found the president of the jesse fan club lol.

    But anywhoo they make popular characters into good units because that's what gets people to play the game. If they made sephiroth a throwaway, or, "jesse" unit, and put a bunch of effort into background jerks like "NV Shopkeeper" or "NVA cat lying in doorway," they'd have much less people spending much less $$ on the game.
     
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  11. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    Wrong. You prejudge, which always results in mistaken conclusions. Her remake self is very different and much more significant than her OG self, and her unit is based on her remake version. The remake is NOT just the same game - if you knew anything about it, you'd have understood that.

    There are a lot of changes, and the ending opens up the possibility of the rest of the series going in a completely different direction with only the most general adherence to the OG's story. You see, not caring is itself a problem. Apathy solves nothing, you stubborn purist. And yes, Jessie having a much greater role and far higher popularity DOES make her deserving of an NV unit. She's getting THREE PAK figure sets, including one with Cloud, so that alone proves that she's not the minor character she once was. She's the first FF NPC to EVER get a PAK figure. If she can do that, she can get an NV unit in this game.

    You misunderstand me. I wasn't saying not to give attention to the PC's and villains. Of course that should be done. And I'm not saying to give every NPC a lot of work and promotion. But certain characters like Jessie, who are popular and are fan favorites, do deserve PC-style recognition even if they are (currently) NPC's.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021 at 3:58 PM
  12. Shr

    Shr Arena Grand Champion Arena Grand Champion Spooky Arena Runner Up S3 VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S2 Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    So it is a new game with new characters and an entirely new story? I am going to bet no.
    At most is the same bull pokemon has been pulling for years. Maybe they should have named it FF7 Black and Blue ::ink::
    As i said if it is a remake or remaster it is automatically disqualified from gaining any interest from me because i played the original.
    I don't mind people playing the game and if i didn't play the original i might have played the remake. I play games, mostly for the story, i don't care much about gameplay or anything else. They want me to buy a game? Make a new one.
    I, from the perspective of a person playing ffbe want less NV units in general because that is bad for me as a player.
    I, from the perspective of a person that only played the original ff7 game, don't care about Jessie or belief she should be the maximum rarity in ffbe. There are, imo plenty of more deserving characters in the whole franchise and plenty more popular ones that would sell more, which is the one thing Alim/gumi cares about.
    Tbh i don't care that much about characters in general, i don't get excited by using unit A instead of unit B, they are just tools to do a job. Only thing i care is how good of a unit they are in ffbe. At the end of the day they are just sprites.
    And also, if you want to use Jessie because you like her or something you are more than free to do so, plenty of people here use old 7* units to clear trials.
    Being an NV unit doesn't mean your unit is not gonna be garbage, plenty of those around.
    I assumed as much, i don't have any social media and most of my ff socializing is this forum and I had never even heard someone mention her before. So the facts that there are fans of this character is news to me.
     
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  13. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    And your automatic disregard for any remake/remaster is wrong. You can't know if it's good or not until you've actually played it yourself. You don't have the right to say what Jessie should or shouldn't get in this game because you haven't played the remake. That is where her unit comes from, NOT the original. Think beyond your own point of view for once and realize you DON'T know everything or even enough to say what Jessie should or shouldn't get. And until you play the remake, you never will. And the fact that you didn't know that, thanks to the remake, Jessie not only has fans but is now popular and a FAN FAVORITE proves you're not in any position to say a single thing about her.
     
  14. hotaru251

    hotaru251 "Hall of Fame" Member

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    FF7R only exists due to history alone.

    the games SE's #1 most ported game (its been ported to most devices that arent nintendo devices..until switch as they did port it on there) and likely their most bought game across all their IP's.

    yes, other characters could use more attention, but side character generally dont get nv status (i mean reno got lucky most likely in that he existed as a 7* already else liekly would of did nva for og seph)

    then there is me who owns ff7 on so many platforms just cause <_<.....
    which has no real fighting to telegraph into game as an nv.

    shes a merc who had a minor role in 1st game and in the 2nd she dies early enoguh to not flesh out a combat history.

    does she have a nice character development? sure, but not enoguh to focus a NV off of.

    yes and no.
    basically game is same early on just prettier. same plot and all but theres minor thigns you notice..and eventually sephiroth is aware of an entity (at least iirc hes aware of their existence) which he ends up killing that changes the "true" history that is plot of ff7 and gives reason to allow game to change from then on. not best way but it is what it is. Also Zack is confirmed to be alive in it at end.

    NV cloud w/o ex buffs is perfect example xD. he was so weak.

    1st off....you should chill some. you have seemingly been attacking ppl for havign different thoughts than you.

    2ndly: there is no right or wrong answer to what a person thinks of the matter.

    Hell I enjoy FF13 trilogy and its 1 of the most unliked in series (only 15 is thought of as worse)

    does that mean others are wrong for not liking it? no. Ppl have different likes/dislikes/thought processes. Part of what makes a person different from others.
    again you are attacking ppl for thinking differently.

    here is a fun fact of the matter:
    any popularity contest is skewed.

    FF7 has sold over 12.8 million units.
    and multiple ppl can play same game (so actual fanbase is much higher)
    FF7R had 5M copies lats yr in aug.

    using even a popularity poll of a million ppl is a tiny amount of the actual total fans.

    majority of fans do not take part in those contests.
    her getting on list? yay for her? doesnt make her better than rest as they also have countless fans. (heck im sure there is a harcore briggs fan soemwhere out there)
     
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  15. Shr

    Shr Arena Grand Champion Arena Grand Champion Spooky Arena Runner Up S3 VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S2 Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    I don't care if it is good or not, being good or not is not the problem. I don't think you get this.
    Lol, of course i do.
    I do not want any more NV units in this game, period.
    It doesn't matter where they are coming from.
    Having more NV units is a problem for players of the game because it dilutes the pool and makes it harder to get the units you want.
    Right back at you. You are being irrational and saying all this as a fan of that unit.
    I don't care about that unit or game, i care about ffbee and don't want more additional units. I don't want gumi to make more units that whatever Alim designs in general. But this is, as always my own personal opinion.
    She has at least one fan, i guess...
    This is not an ff7 remake forum and ffbe is not an ff7 remake game. If you really think she should be an NV for whatever reason then take it with gumi/Alim or square and make a case to them.
    Telling us here all that solves none of your "problems" whatever those are.
    But i will never care about a character, any character, including that one, because to me that sound...so strange. But you do you and let whomever you think will solve this for you know about it.
    Preferably someone at the company that makes ffbe and if you succeed, then...more power to you, whomever you are.
    I gave you my personal opinion, i can't do more than that, feel free to disregard it or take it to heart.
    People in general do not necessarily have the same values or care or like the same things you do.
    There is nothing wrong with you being a fan of the unit for whatever reason but understand that not everyone is or cares.
     
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  16. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    Lol, i did the exact same thing. Played through the game multiple time. Beat Emerald and Ruby. Got 2 copies of Knights of Rounds. Not a single fragment of this characters.
     
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  17. Shr

    Shr Arena Grand Champion Arena Grand Champion Spooky Arena Runner Up S3 VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S2 Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    Don't tell others but there are parts of ff13 i actually liked ::joy::
    This actually took me by surprise. Tbh i am basically a hermit that knows nothing about what is currently trending or popular to the point i had to literally Google who she was and read the wiki.
    I guess square will in 10 years do a game about the fleas in nanaki's back and their quest for freedom::ink::

    This is what we get for letting companies become perpetual nostalgia machines instead of trying new things.

    Then again whenever they try something new they come back with this
    [​IMG]
    So you know..
    Mixed feelings about that::ink::
     
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  18. Axwind

    Axwind Ascended Member

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    And that needs to change. Prominent secondary characters like Jessie deserve to get NV status as well, either through NV awakening or a true NV unit. What is thought about what they should or shouldn't get is outdated and needs to be adjusted.

    Jessie's not necessarily dead. It's very possible she survived/had her fate changed thanks to the whispers being around her and them being later defeated. The same thing that happened to Zack could've easily happened to her, too, hence the sparkles floating in Sector 7 at the end. And being NV isn't dependent on getting a certain amount of character development. She got a lot and is one of the most popular characters in the remake, with three PAK sets. And that's not enough for NV? And also, there's more to go on with her combat skills than you think. Aside from her gun and grenades, she's also skilled at hand-to-hand fighting - this is proven by her flying kick in the opening, which had to take lots of practice to hit right, and Wedge's comment that she'd beat them up, which he'd only have said if he knew she was able to fight like that. Just because we didn't see much of it doesn't mean it isn't there. It's called extrapolation. And her tech skills can provide her with a foundation for all kinds of abilities. There's a lot more to work with than you think.

    She didn't just get on the list - she beat every character aside from Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith. That includes Sephiroth, Rufus, the Turks, Barret, and every other character in the game. And I'm not just going by the poll. Jessie is the first FF NPC to ever get a PAK figure, and she's not just getting one set, she's getting THREE. That alone speaks volumes about how much she's liked. Also, Gumi didn't just name her unit "Jessie" but called it "Avalanche's Jessie" - this is important because typically, units with descriptors in front of their names either have multiple variant units or get them later on, hinting that Jessie may in fact get another unit later, possibly NV.

    You can't make any definitive statements about a game unless you've played it. You unfairly judge all remakes/remasters with the same brush, but generalizations are ALWAYS wrong. And NOTHING is truly original. Everything is built on what came before. NOTHING is created in a vacuum. It's how creativity works.

    Wrong. You can't say anything about a character you know nothing about and expect to have any credibility. And there ARE going be new NV units in the game, always, so get used to it. Jessie getting one of them, either through awakening or a new NV base unit, won't kill the game. There are ways to get the fragments and dupes you need if you're patient, so dilution is not as much of an issue as you think.

    You do it first. And we're getting more units - the game won't keep going without them, and Gumi knows it. Your apathy makes you sound cold and emotionless, like a robot.

    Way more than just one, if you'd bother to be honest enough to admit it. And I've posted on the BE twitter page about this. And caring about characters and what happens to them is what connects you to a story. Again, what you say makes you sound like an emotionless robot. Ditch the apathy.

    She was only in the very beginning in the original, but you can't judge her by that anymore. I guess you didn't pay attention during the first few missions in Midgar. Jessie and her role have been greatly expanded for the remake, and she has a good chance of coming back and playing a part in the continuing story thanks to the changes that have been made.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021 at 6:13 PM
  19. Sartre

    Sartre Murder Bunny Enthusiast VIP Supporter

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    You will play it and you will LIKE IT!!!
     
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  20. LurkerRamza

    LurkerRamza Ascended Member

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    The criticism about remakes and reboots especially in movies is valid, but players have been clamoring for a proper upgrade to FFVII ever sense PS2 graphics came out 3 years later and then again with PSP in 2005.

    The ports were convenient but the chance to play it fully reworked was a dream for a generation of players now. The fact that they didnt just "remaster" it on a new graphics engine, but actually reworked it significantly is also a plus.
     
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