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Dragonlord 7* Discussion

Discussion in 'Unit Reviews' started by Memel0rd, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Dragonl0rd returns Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Since his 7* only got basically a stat boost I don't see the need for a seperate review. So I'd rather open a discussion thread :).

    Dragonlord Discussion

    [​IMG]


    First up, his damage output. Therefor we need the build.I am not using any STMRs and at lvl 120 he reaches the MAG cap currently fast which grants him easy access to MAG killers without losing much MAG. If you have 10% MAG on both of your rods IN TOTAL you already hit the cap and have one free materia slot for killers or defensive materias.


    Build:
    Mateus Malice + 10% MAG (129 MAG, 10% HP)
    Mateus Malice (129 MAG, 10% HP)
    Minstrel's Prayer (8 DEF, 42 MAG, 46 SPR, 20% MP)
    Strategic Cape (40 DEF, 52 MAG, 38 SPR, 20% MP)
    Mystic Sash (45 MAG)
    Mystic Sash (45 MAG)
    Domineering Spirit (HP Regen + 10% MP Refresh) & 80% MAG, 30% HP/MP
    Quintessence (30% MAG, Dualwield)
    Dark Bond (50% MAG)
    Free Materia Slot

    Stats with 3* Shiva:
    10719 HP
    759 MP
    1574 MAG
    353 DEF
    396 SPR

    151 MP / turn


    As we can see, Dragonlord with this build already reaches 151 MP per turn, which means he effectively doesn't use up any MP for his Kafrizzle +2. He also has high HP and a decent MAG stat if you keep in mind that he has a free materia slot.
    Other mages have higher MAG due to MAG True Dualwield or Doublehand.


    Damage:
    Assuming 100% MAG buff
    MAG post buff: 1832

    ? = Amount of Imperil


    Without CD boost:
    1832^2 x 35 x 4 x ? = 469,871,360

    Imperils:
    35% = 634,326,336
    50% = 704,807,040
    60% = 751,794,176
    75% = 822,274,880
    100% = 939,742,720


    After CD boost:
    1832^2 x 44 x 4 x ? = 590,695,424

    Imperils:
    35% = 797,438,822
    50% = 886,043,136
    60% = 945,112,678
    75% = 1,033716,992
    100% = 1,181,390,848


    This damage output is really high if you take into account that he can do it every turn compared to other finishers who constantly need to set themselves up through other abilities or wait for their LB gauge.
    It becomes spicy once you realise that his damage output is available from Turn 1 onwards without losing any MP effectively and if you want him to deal more burst damage you can set him up for Turn 2 or any other turn and gain an additional 900% modifier.


    Other Finishers:
    We currently have a small roster of magic finishers and there will be more in the future.

    Compared to Dragonlord, Shantotto can deal slightly higher damage than Dragonlord after his CD move with a 75% or lesser imperil, however she takes a lot more time to get there as well as a long enough chain. Rinoa gets beaten as long as you have a 35% imperil from e.g. Crazy Day.

    The main reason why e.g. Shantotto has such a high damage potential is due to her 300% MAG stack buff for one of her casts which bumps up her MAG to almost 3000. Whereas Dragonlord has relatively low MAG.

    In the future we will see many other finishers such as Emperor, Mediena and possibly even Elly.




    Dragonlord[​IMG] VS [​IMG]Emperor

    Emperor at 7* now has access to dualcasting his Fire From Below +2. In GL that one has already a 50% fire imperil innately which can help him depending on your team composition, though there are several chainers who will imperil fire at strong levels in the near future such as Raegen, Nyx, Hyou and Emperor Shera. So that shouldn't be a problem for most players.
    Dragonlord will not beat Emperor in terms of burst damage simply because Emperor has access to a higher mod with 50x. But he still needs to stack that one up compared to Dragonlord's instant finisher.
    These are Emperor's buildup turns (only modifiers):
    Turn 1: 250% + 500% = 750%
    Turn 2: 750% + 1000% = 1750%
    Turn 3: 1250% + 1500% = 2750%
    Turn 4: 1750% + 2000% = 3750%
    Turn 5: 2250% + 2500% = 4750%
    Turn 6: 2500% + 2500% = 5000%

    Average over 6 turns: 3125%

    Obviously these aren't the true damage numbers and only modifiers, but that shows that AVERAGELY Emperor's modifier is below Dragonlord's by quite a bunch and from what we can take of his JP's side they will have quite similar MAG stats.
    If you want burst finishers Emperor is indeed better. IF you want a solo DPS he will also perform better. If you don't have any fire imperils, Emperor will also be better.
    The "niche" of Dragonlord effectively having a higher modifier for the first turns might make him more attractive to you.
    In this comparison there isn't really a winner because both of them have their pros and cons while being strong finishers.




    Dragonlord [​IMG]VS [​IMG]Mediena

    This one is far in the future while Mediena also has a lot higher MAG.
    Mediena's TMR grants her Dualwield as well as 30% MAG innately while her Trust Ability adds 200% modifiers to her Zoblizza and some additional modifiers to other spells.
    At 7* Mediena now has access to Triple Cast. Her CD ability imperils ice by 100% and gives her one 200% MAG stack buff for the next spell, which is a huge boost in damage.
    Her stacking spell modifiers look like this:

    Turn 1: 320% + 440% + 560% = 1320%
    Turn 2: 680% + 800% + 920% = 2400%
    Turn 3: 1040% + 1160% + 1280% = 3480%
    Turn 4: 1400% + 1400% + 1400% = 4200%

    Average: 2850%

    So at turn 4 she reaches her max stacks and these modifiers exceed Dragonlord's by quite a lot. Especially due to her 100% ice imperil once she's at max stacks with her higher MAG AND 200% MAG stack buff her damage will be SO much ahead of Dragonlord, but this takes time again. Averagely she will be worse during that time so Dragonlord still has his early turn niche.

    But Mediena will get enhancements. Let's just take a look at her mods AFTER the enhancements.

    Turn 1: 420% + 640% + 860% = 1920%
    Turn 2: 1080% + 1300% + 1520% = 3900%
    Turn 3: 1740% + 1960% + 2180% = 5880%
    Turn 4: 2400% + 2400% + 2400% = 7200%

    Average: 4725%

    Post her enhancements Dragonlord's niche will only last for 1~3 turns while Mediena brings her own 70% imperil easily without her CD ability now.



    Conclusion:
    Where does that put Dragonlord?
    Currently he's at the top of the charts again and even with Emperor's release he should remain at the top for most content because building up for 6 turns often is too much. Events and such do not welcome that playstyle.
    Dragonlord will also play an important role for players who like to LTC (Low Turn Count). He instantly jumps into the battle at any time while still dealing high damage.
    At the end of the day, once we get more powerful finishers (Mediena is pretty much at the top of the magic finishers post enhancements), Dragonlord will start to become more niche. But his niche is very useful for a lot of the game's content even if he might be less commonly seen in trials.
    How much you value instant damage is up to you. Many players don't mind stacking up at all, some hate it. Some value Turn 1 damage a lot.


    I hope this was helpful to anyone. Let me know how much you value early fight potential!
     
  2. Kaltoren

    Kaltoren New Member

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    How does he stack to BL Sakura? I have a dupe if her ready to go and none of DL. Not sure if I should just hold out for BL Sakura and save for Hyou? I’m FTP
     
  3. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Dragonl0rd returns Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    You should rather wait for Sakura :).
     
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  4. partydoc

    partydoc Well-Known Member

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    Well, I like instant high damage and OTKO strategies, especially for events and raids, because I have to repeat the same fight so often, I don't want to loose much time with it. Sometimes at work, in a small break or so, I just want to do some rounds fast and efficient, so I don't loose time. Olive helped me a lot the last weeks, and now Dragonlord as well. Both nukers, one with lightning element and physical attack, now Dragonlord with fire and magical attack. I'm quite happy with both of them. If they cap chains (at the moment I love doing tornado chains with my 7* Dark and Seabreeze Dark Fina couple), the damage of these finishers go through the roof! I have my DL slightly above 750 MP, and the MP refresh is exactly 150 MP, and with his cooldown move and e.g. MS Nichol in team, there shouldn't be any MP issues at all!
    Btw, thanks a lot for your short update on DL, it's exactly the amount of information we need concerning his 7* form. Maybe you can add this info (or a link to this article) to his main review, so it's easier to find the info you are looking for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  5. TheKillingJoke

    TheKillingJoke Rum und Ähre! VIP

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    I don't value otk that much. The raids and km events are for veterans pretty much always otks, no matter what they throw at us. Either we have two very powerful chainers or a good finisher.
    Everybody who got him will welcome the damage and he should be very helpful in 10 man battles as single dd or finisher.
    Personally i don't like this unit because he is so goddamn straight forward. Like Cloud, mechanic-wise.

    For effectivenes i'd prefer him over the others for the moment. For playfun i'd rather take Empi or Mediena.

    Also he does have a unit sprite i just CAN'T get warm with.
     
  6. partydoc

    partydoc Well-Known Member

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    I see your point of course! He's just fast and effective, but not a piece of art! Spritewise and concerning versatility, he can't compete with others!
     
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  7. Shinma

    Shinma Well-Known Member

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    Quick build disagreement @Memel0rd

    Unmatched Wizardry finally becomes BiS
    (no STMR)
    Dragonlord 7★
    Right hand: Mateus's Malice HP+10%, MP+15%, ATK+19, MAG+129, MAG+40% (IW :MAG +15%, MAG +10%, Rare)
    Head: Minstrel's Prayer MP+20%, DEF+8, MAG+42, SPR+46
    Body: Dark Robe DEF+35, MAG+55, SPR+20
    Accessory 1: Snowbear MAG+50, SPR+30
    Accessory 2: Ice Rosetta DEF+50, MAG+50
    Materia 1: Discernment (Killer/+MP/utility slot)*
    Materia 2: Rod Mastery MAG+50%
    Materia 3: Unmatched Wizardry SPR+10%
    Materia 4: Domineering Spirit
    Esper: Ramuh HP+44, MP+80, ATK+36, DEF+29, MAG+80, SPR+65
    Total: HP:10138, MP:717, ATK:274, DEF:365, MAG:1601, SPR:396
    (143 regen, but the basis of build can be tweaked easily to cover the remaining 7mp)

    I had argued in the news post about him being lackluster but I ended up pulling a second while hunting for a spare LMS for xp feeding :V
    The gist of my argument was his MP cost is so high that in any high mp drain environment, he's entirely useless unless you have Chow or Zagr (or one or two of the suicidal refresh chars) to get him 150mp back promptly.


    Dragonlord 7★
    Right hand: Mateus's Malice HP+10%, ATK+19, MAG+129 (IW :)
    Head: Minstrel's Prayer MP+20%, DEF+8, MAG+42, SPR+46
    Body: Dark Robe DEF+35, MAG+55, SPR+20
    Accessory 1: Mystic Sash MAG+45
    Accessory 2: Mystic Sash MAG+45
    Materia 1: Sage of Mysidia MP+20%, MAG+40%
    Materia 2: Rod Mastery MAG+50%
    Materia 3: Unmatched Wizardry SPR+10%
    Materia 4: Domineering Spirit
    Esper: Shiva HP+93, MP+105, ATK+58, DEF+61, MAG+100, SPR+98
    Total: HP:10188, MP:759, ATK:296, DEF:348, MAG:1606, SPR:399

    *BS Sakura TMR will swap cover any shortfalls for non-item world'd rod/mp above, other +40% mag tmrs also work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  8. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Dragonl0rd returns Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Quick disagreement: I don't use limited TMRs :)
     
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  9. Shinma

    Shinma Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Thought I'd mention the utility though but forgot about the non-limited tmr.
     
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  10. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Dragonl0rd returns Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Hey, I like his sprite ::rudecat18::
     
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  11. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    I'm really liking his 7* so far, but I also have Emperor and BS Sakura 7* ready so I'll have to see what they look like for their GL release.
     
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  12. Carnefix

    Carnefix Newsl0rd Staff Member Moderator Arena Runner Up S2 VIP Supporter German Moderator Arena Runner-Up S1

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    I also want him for his strong nukes and his synergy with Yun and Nyx (as a chainer). Used around 15 Tickets and 6 4*+ Tickets and didn't get him.
    I actually don't need him at all since I have 2 BSS but the sprite is just great.

    Still hesitant to use some Lapis hoping to get him since Hyou is near who is a great chainer for BSS and DL.
    Waiting for the news and see if I even get one Hyou if he comes next week. Might use the rest of my few tickets on DL.
     
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  13. S-Loxe

    S-Loxe Active Member Supporter

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    I'm feeling tempted to use some Lapis on him ;----; (the fact that he's limited adds to that)
    A ready-to-go Magic finisher is something that I really want, and since I have no Sakura yet I'm starting to consider doing at least one 5k summon,
    But I'll wait for the last day to decide tho >w<
     
  14. Otherwise

    Otherwise Ascended Member

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    Hm. I threw about 10 tickets at this banner to see if I could luck out a dupe, but I've already got three Emperors so I guess I won't sweat it too much.

    Really the only contribution I can make is to point out that "averagely" isn't a word.
     
  15. Road Ants

    Road Ants Well-Known Member

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    I love units like DL that start dealing damage with no set up required
     
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  16. Arnatuile

    Arnatuile Wolf of Lapis Street. Proud Evade user. Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    The main issue is that, outside of 10-man trials, I see very little room for 2 dedicated Chainers and a dedicated Finisher as me move on. And the places where there might be place for that because of few-turn-ko-strategies (Odin 3*, Alexander 3*. Gilga Reborn...), either you might not want DL as your finisher, or you might get to the same result with 2x backloaded chainers (in the sense that the difference could be winning in x turns or winning in x+2 turns, by bringing some more support to deal with those added 2 turns). If you bring him as a solo DD with 2x Pod users (which is what you do if you need more support), then CG Sakura/Emperor/Mediena would probably be better for team comp. This is the general problem I have with DL: in my book, he doesn't really fit in most scenario's. And the situations where he could fit (including 10-man trials) don't really seem good enough of a reason to go for him. (Need to admit I have zero DL though, whilst I have 2x Emperor/CG Sakura and a Medina, so the decision of not pulling for him is easier).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  17. partydoc

    partydoc Well-Known Member

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    Lol, it's the kind of mistake native German speakers (like Memel0rd and me) sometimes make. The German word is "durchschnittlich", *lich is similar to the ending *ly in English. But here, in English you can only use the construction "on average". It's a trap for German speakers! Lol
     
  18. Carnefix

    Carnefix Newsl0rd Staff Member Moderator Arena Runner Up S2 VIP Supporter German Moderator Arena Runner-Up S1

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    I know all of that and also tell it to new players.

    But it also depends on the units one has and the trial itself. Some have allowed me to take a finisher with me because of the multi role units and many TMR's I have.

    I still like having the options since I tend to be lazy sometimes and just go for the nuke strategies.
     
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  19. partydoc

    partydoc Well-Known Member

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    @Arnatuile: Yeah, backloaded chainers... Now we get back to the point, that Hyou will change the meta so drastically, that many good units might become irrelevant... It's almost a bit sad!
     
  20. Arnatuile

    Arnatuile Wolf of Lapis Street. Proud Evade user. Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    Yeah, but the meta is going to shift. A unit that used to be a multi-role unit because they could provide 50% breaks and do damage (hey, good evening Nyx), won't be considered a real breaker anymore. Nuke strategies are fine. I am just saying you prolly don't need DL for any of those.

    @partydoc Old dd's won't be irrelevant for a bit still. But yes, Hyou brings that mechanic over that is going to be the new meta standard for physical dd's.
     
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