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Edgar & Sabin Banner Overview by Memel0rd

Discussion in 'Unit Reviews' started by Memel0rd, May 27, 2019.

  1. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Updated Rankings + Reasonings! Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Final Fantasy 6 is one of the top-tier titles from Square Enix and it's quite obvious why: Great characters, great story, great turn-based fighting system and amazing soundtracks. Edgar and Sabin were always one of the more popular characters as the brothers have unique and partially very comedic characters.
    I myself find Edgar to be one of my faves of FF6 alongside Setzer and I know there are many out there who have nostalgia for this game.
    This is one of the few double banners that have both great units as well as nostalgia in them instead of the FFBE original onslaught, so let's get to it!


    Edgar & Sabin Banner Overview by Memel0rd


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]



    King Edgar of Figaro:
    [​IMG]5*
    [​IMG]6*
    [​IMG]7*

    TMR: Master of Machinery (Materia) - Increase MP (20%) and ATK (40%)
    Increase physical damage against mechanical monsters (50%)
    STMR: Coin of Fate - Edgar (Accessory) - 50 ATK, Ribbon, 50% LB Fillrate

    Overview:
    Having an Amano Art inspired sprite is always a big plus and I absolutely love Edgar's sprite.

    His base stats are very well rounded with overall great stats in terms of survivability as well as decent ATK though that's not where I think his potential lies in. His passives focus more on the offensive aspects but the rest isn't lacking with a total of 160% ATK, 30% TDW and 50% TDH including his TMR as well as 40% HP/DEF, 50% SPR and 60% MP. As Edgar is a damage dealer / breaker hybrid both are quite important.
    Edgar has great innate resistances against charm, blind, confusion and petrification as well as an innate 250% Machine Killer with his TMR, which is one of the few cases I'd actually gear him for ATK.

    There are many abilities that don't play a big role in Edgar's kit:
    Auto Crossbow, Flash, Bioblaster, Noiseblaster, Drill, Chainsaw (unless you want to chain Stardust Ray users, which aren't common yet).

    Also another note: Edgar can W-Cast all of his abilities except Bravo Figaro!, which we'll get to later on.

    Similar to 2B Edgar can focus on both damage as well as breaking, though I do think Edgar is better used as a main breaker, which you will see later on in my suggested build, too.

    On-demand breaks are always highly appreciated and even if it's a bit weird, as long as you can plan out the fight it can be very valuable. Edgar's Air Anchor is a weak damage dealing ability that on the next turn automatically casts a 1 Turn ST 70% fullbreak. This is gimmicky, yes, however as of right now most enemy self-dispels can be planned through threshholds, certain actions or turn based actions. This means, as long as you plan one step ahead, Edgar technically has a 70% fullbreak on-demand that can be used into a stronger break of his.

    Then he has Debilitator - Water / Earth, a 4 turn 60% DEF break (which isn't too important) as well as a ST 4 turn 85% Water / Earth imperil, which is quite impressive to have on-demand. Always appreciated as it makes your team more versatile in terms of elemental damage, can also be great alongside MS Nichol / S.Nichol with his ST water imbue.

    Now, we're getting to the interesting part: Cooldown abilities! And he has three of them.
    Let's cover the latter two first that can be used alongside his W-cast.

    Royal Shock is available at Turn 4 , deals a hefty 3500% modifier with Aureole Ray frames as well as an 81% self HP damge, which is coming in handy later down the road.
    The AR frames are very important as we recently got Esther, who is a monster in terms of damage. Her main damage source comes from her LB, which also has AR frames and will be used every other turn. Since Esther can also function well as a Solo DPS, having Edgar chain with her on every fourth turn should be more than plenty damage for most trials currently.

    Awkward Inventor is a bit weird but definitely has use. It is available at Turn 1 with a massive 20 turn cooldown, however not only does it buff your party's machine killer by 50% and LB fillrate by 200% for 5 turns, it also grants Edgar a set of abilities for the following 5 turns.
    These include an on-demand AoE 2 Turn 70% ATK/MAG or DEF/SPR break, a Light chain with a 75% light imperil that chains with... NG Jake?, a semi-finisher ability with a ST 1 turn 100% Water / Earth / Light imperil and lastly an AoE 70 MP recover with self 6 LB fill. The breaks and the MP recover in particular are the most useful.
    I see this ability more of an emergency tool as Edgar doesn't have problems keeping up his main breaks at all.

    So... which breaks am I relating to?
    Firstly there's Bravo Figaro, available at Turn 1 with a 10 turn cooldown. A ST 74% 3 turn fullbreak as well as a ST 100% Water / Earth imperil and a self 300% LB fillrate buff! This ensures him to get his LB almost instantly and is great to start off a fight with, though sadly is a ST break.

    His Limit Burst however is really interesting. It has a decent 2200% modifier and a decaying 1 Turn 84% AoE Fullbreak , then becomes a 74% fullbreak on the next turn and lastly a 64% fullbreak. On the turn after Edgar also fills his own LB gauge by 8, which is crucial as his Limit Burst has a cost of 32. With 12 Auto LB and the added LB fill effect Edgar can 100% reliably use his LB without any chains or so.
    This results in a permanent 84% DEF/SPR break (due to how breaks work) and an alternating 84% into 74% ATK/MAG break on all enemies unless they dispel themselves.

    If you want even more, Edgar after he drops below 20% HP can use an even stronger version. His LB goes up to a 3300% modifier as well as a 2 Turn AoE 84% Fullbreak that doesn't decay, however also doesn't have the LB fill effect.


    How does he fare in the meta?
    Edgar
    I'd say does very well and the only lacking thing about him is the initial lack of AoE breaks, though afterwards is a very reliable breaker that has the chain frames of Esther, one of our strongest chainers.

    He comes with 3 strong imperils against Water, Earth and Light as well as decent damage potential and a high LB cryst generation as his LB has 30 hits, his Royal Shock has AR frames and on off-turns Auto Crossbow CAN be used to generate even more, though I don't think that's the best idea.

    With some predictions he can have a ST 70% fullbreak on demand but as I explained earlier use his LB reliably every other turn without any external support at all, which is great as he breaks for very high percentages. If timed correctly you can apply the 84% break during the threshhold turns OR drop him below 20% HP through Royal Shock and keep up his 84% break for 2 turns instead of one.

    Edgar is very fun to play around with and if used alongside a proper strategy can be very rewarding, though struggles against multi-bosses in the first turn and competes with Auron / Loren in the higher tiers, where I do have to say that in general Auron as well as Loren will perform better.

    Loren and Auron both share frames with the most powerful damage dealers in GL as of right now whereas both start off with a massive 74% fullbreak + extra utility. It's also easy to keep up both LBs more than often as both can equip daggers. Through our materias we got recently (e.g. Sieghard) as well as IW enhancements on Daggers both easily hit the innate 300% LB fillrate cap. With external buffs they pretty much always have their LBs up if needed.

    Thus I'll rank Edgar at #3 for now right above Beowulf, though if you aren't facing a multi-boss on Turn 1 I'd definitely put him above Loren though not above Auron as Edgar also has AR frames even if not on-demand, though Zeno is above Esther and Auron has AT frames.

    Edgar is a great unit and if you don't have a breaker yet I can only recommend you to use him.
    Funnily enough Edgar in the Arena can be quite devastating with Auto Crossbow as he can basically quadruple chain with a dupe as Auto Crossbow hits "twice" per cast and he also has W-Cast and some innate TDH as well as charm resistance.

    His TMR isn't too exciting though definitely a strong killer materia against machines. However his STMR is quite special. A 50 ATK accessory with an innate Ribbon as well as 50% LB fillrate is amazing and definitely an easy way for many physical damage dealers to get a ribbon without losing (m)any offensive stats.

    In the future Edgar will receive Series Boss Bonuses that will grant him access to an instant LB fill CD as well as T-Cast on the first turn.


    Build:
    Lightning Saber (125 ATK, Lightning)
    Ziedrich (70 DEF, 35 SPR, 15% HP)
    Grand Helm+ (65 DEF, 30% DEF, 10% HP)
    Grand Armor (72 DEF, 28 SPR, 15% HP)
    Twin Bunny Clips x2 (70 DEF/SPR, 20% HP/MP, 4 Auto LB)
    Master of Machinery (40% ATK, 20% MP) + 50% LB fillrate, 2 Auto LB
    Protector of Lapis (20% HP, 40% SPR, 2 Auto LB)
    Pure White Blessing (1800 HP / turn, 10% MP refresh, 2 Auto LB)
    Adamantine (50% HP, 10% DEF/SPR, 10% Phys/Mag mitigation)

    Stats with Carbuncle 3*:
    14806 HP
    660 MP
    808 ATK
    752 DEF
    690 SPR

    12 Auto LB
    99 MP / turn


    Character Design: 9.5/10
    Sprite: 9.5/10
    Chainer: 7.5~8/10
    Breaker: 9~9.5/10
    Trust Master Reward: 8/10
    STMR: 9.5/10
    Arena: 9.5/10
    Limit Burst: 9.5/10
    Future Proof: 8.5~9/10
    Free 2 Play: 8.5/10
    Pay 2 Play: 9/10
    Personal Rating: 9.5/10
    Optimal Rating: 8.5~9/10


    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Monk Sabin of Kolts:
    [​IMG]5*
    [​IMG]6*
    [​IMG]7*

    TMR: Long Training Pays Off (Materia) - Increase ATK (60%) when equipped with a fist
    Auto-heal (1800 HP, 1x) per turn
    STMR: Coin of Fate - Sabin (Accessory) - 55 ATK, 30% HP, 60% ATK with a fist

    Overview:
    I know what you might be thinking "oh, another subpar damage dealer, whatever". This isn't the case though, which was quite surprising.

    Base stat wise Sabin is pretty standard with high ATK, good HP and good SPR (one of the few who have mentionable higher SPR than DEF). He also comes with innate 70% HP, 20% DEF and a suprisingly high 100% SPR. With his own TMR he also gets up to a total of 220% ATK and 200% TDH. Not bad so far.
    Sabin is resistant against poison, paralyze and disease, which is a bit below the average.

    As always, we have a bunch of abilities that have almost no use or are too niche to get a mention, though might occasionally be useful:
    Kick, Raging Fist, Aura Cannon (useful if you fight undeads), Chakra (AoE Heal + MP Recover, though most likely other roles cover that), Meteor Strike, Rising Phoenix and Razor Gale.

    Sabin can W-/T-Cast all of his abilities except for Undying Spirit.

    Another niche ability of his though has a lot more usage is Soul Spiral. It brings Sabin down to 1 HP (which similar to Edgar will also proc his <20% HP mechanic), though in return cures all ailments and fully recovers your party's HP except for Sabin's. An AoE full heal that can be included in your damage combo can be very helpful.

    Something funny to point out but overall not too useful is that he has a 70% chance to counter physical attacks with a 1 turn T-cast unlock.

    Sabin mainly focuses on two elements with Meditation - Flowing / Flaming Soul. Both abilities do the same except for the self imbue. A self 100 MP recover + 8 LB fill, a 50% modifier boost to Phantom Rush and Tiger Break and of course a self 5 turn Water / Fire imbue. This works pretty well with Edgar as Edgar comes with two 100% water imperils and an on-demand 85% water imperil as Sabin sadly lacks all kind of imperils. Though Folka and Auron also do quite well.

    Sabin's main chaining ability is Phantom Rush with an effective backloaded 600% modifier as well as AT frames, though this ramps up very fast due to having two parts both with 50% DEF ignore. With his innate passives, Phantom Rush already goes up to a 1500% modifier. After Meditation - Soul this goes up to a 1700% modifier.

    Now... his CD abilities. Again, he has three of them.

    Breathing Technique is quite important multiple times in Sabin's rotation. Available at Turn 1 with a 2 turn cooldown you can use it every other turn basically. It has a self Curaja heal with a self cure all breaks, enables T-Cast for the following turn and boosts the modifiers of Phantom Rush by 100% and Tiger Break by 200% for 2 turns.

    Though to find out why it's important we have to take a look at Tiger Break. It's available at Turn 3 and has a very... high modifier to say the least.
    It has 5 hits and each hit has a 300% modifier + 50% def ignore. This means every modifier boost gets applied 10 times effectively. Its innate modifier already goes up to 3000%, though after innate passives, Meditation - Soul AND Breathing Technique we look at a 7000% modifier from an ability that can be multi-casted!
    The issue is: You can't reliably chain it. Against centered enemies with spark chains you CAN perfectly chain it from Phantom Rush, however this often isn't the case. Even so this ability is worth using in the rotation as you can see later on.

    His last CD ability is also very important alongside his LB. Undying Spirit has a 10 turn cooldown though available at Turn 1 and should always be used when it's up.
    It deals 81% of his own HP to himself, buffs his own ATK by 250% for 5 turns as well as granting him Reraise for 5 turns AND fully fills his LB gauge.

    His LB is a 52-Hit chain that splits into three chains basically, with an innate 3500% modifier and granting Sabin T-Cast for the following 2 turns.
    Once he dropped below 20% HP his LB will get upgraded for 2 turns... up to a 7000% modifier that grants him T-Cast for the following 4 turns! This is huge and definitely has a ton of damage potential.


    How does he fare in the meta?
    Sabin
    does... really well. The damage calcs I used are the most likely ones to occur with Tiger Break not being able to chain as well as having a 50% imperil.
    However there is a lot of improvement for you that Sabin can utilise a lot.

    The Sledge Tonfa is only a 86 ATK weapon. Once we receive Regina there will be a 130 ATK 2h Knuckle on her banner, which is an effective 176 ATK boost for Sabin.
    Then there's the external imperil which can go up to 75% / 79% / 85% / 100% quite easily, also boosting his damage even further.
    Other than that you can also have a higher ATK buff on the turns where his self 250% ATK buff ran out. In my case this is a 100% buff.
    Lastly Tiger Break against centered enemies with spark chains can perfectly chain, also boosting the burst turn significantly.

    With the right setup and perfect Tiger Break chains Sabin is capable of reaching Esther / Zeno damage levels, which makes him definitely a worthwhile unit and it's not too much of a stretch to get him to that point. It definitely isn't.

    However I am also going to put him at the #3 spot due to the very same reasons he can be higher: because I can't assume that the generic reader will have the access to it nor the capability of chaining Tiger Break (as this is also boss reliant).
    Sabin has a ton of potential to grow. Though in comparison to Zeno and Esther he also is quite far behind in survivability due to both Zeno and Esther being capable of utilising Storm Kickers, Zeno having permanent 10% phys / mag mitigation and Esther having guts passive, stop / charm resistance and huge innate bulk with 30% phys evasion too.

    His Series Boss Bonuses (SBB) weren't too exciting and didn't change a whole lot about him other than granting him a 40% chance to counter any attack with a 100% modifier boost to Phantom Rush.


    Build + Maths:
    Sledge Tonfa (86 ATK, 2h, x1.5 avg variance)
    Prishe's Hairpin (45 ATK, 10% HP/MP)
    Fryevia's Suit (30 ATK, 10% ATK, 1 DEF/SPR)
    Marshal Gloves x2 (80 ATK, 100% TDH)
    Long Training Pays Off (60% ATK) + 30% ATK/SPR, 100% TDH
    Soaring Heart (60% ATK)
    Past Regrets (60% ATK, -10% SPR)
    Martial Arts Mastery (50% ATK)

    Stats with Titan 3*:
    9929 HP
    485 MP
    2400 ATK
    330 DEF
    512 SPR

    ATK post 250% buff: 3080
    ATK post 100% buff: 2672
    Assuming 50% external imperil

    Turn 1: Undying Spirit
    Turn 2: Upgraded LB
    Turn 3: Meditation - Soul + Phantom Rush + Tiger Break
    Turn 4: Phantom Rush x3
    Turn 5: Breathing Technique + Phantom Rush x2
    Turn 6: Phantom Rush x2 + Tiger Break
    Turn 7: Limit Break
    Turn 8: Meditation - Soul + + Phantom Rush x2
    Turn 9: Breathing Technique + Phantom Rush + Tiger Break
    Turn 10: Phantom Rush x3

    Turn 1: 0
    Turn 2: 3080^2 x 70 x 3.25 x 1.5 = 3237234000
    Turn 3: [ 3080^2 x 17 x 3.5875 + 3080^2 x (10 x 4 + 40) ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 3009293595
    Turn 4: [ 3080^2 x 17 x 3.5875 + 3080^2 x 17 x 4 x 2 ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 4204579995
    Turn 5: [ 3080^2 x 21 x 3.5875 + 3080^2 x 21 x 4 ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 3400963335
    Turn 6: [ 2672^2 x 21 x 3.5875 + 2672^2 x 21 x 4 + 2672^2 x (14 x 4 + 56) ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 4455769752
    Turn 7: 2672^2 x 35 x 3.52 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 1979092684
    Turn 8: [ 2672^2 x 17 x 3.5875 + 2672^2 x 17 x 4 ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 2072063455
    Turn 9: [ 2672^2 x 21 x 3.5875 + 2672 x (14 x 4 + 56) ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 3009401589
    Turn 10: [ 2672^2 x 21 x 3.5875 + 2672 x 21 x 4 x 2 ] x 1.5 x 1.5 = 3908989173

    Average Turn 1-10: 2,927,738,757
    -> 26% higher than Akstar ( 2,326,331,295 )
    -> 29% lower than Esther ( 4,145,746,483 )
    -> 49% lower than Zeno of the Beta Star ( 5,696,282,500 )


    Character Design: 8/10
    Sprite: 8.5/10
    Chainer: 9~9.5/10
    Trust Master Reward: 8.5/10
    STMR: 9.5/10
    Arena: 7.5/10
    Limit Burst: 9.5/10
    Future Proof: 8/10
    Free 2 Play: 8.5/10
    Pay 2 Play: 9.5/10
    Personal Rating: 8.5~9/10
    Optimal Rating: 9.5/10




    [​IMG]



    Hope you had great pulls if you did actually pull, have a great start in the week!


    Memel0rd out
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  2. Regalia

    Regalia Professional Cat VIP Supporter

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    Excellent as always. Loved the gif at the end. Ahhh, memories.
     
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  3. Consarn

    Consarn wife bad, child bad, barbecue good VIP Supporter

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    but is sabin as good as he was in ff6
     
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  4. Ashlag

    Ashlag My god is not a Smiling God Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    Well in FF6 it fully depended on how well you were able to use his blitz command, which was sometimes a massive pain.
     
  5. Manveru

    Manveru "Hall of Fame" Member

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    You mean Edward Elric/Guile banner?
     
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  6. Consarn

    Consarn wife bad, child bad, barbecue good VIP Supporter

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    so only if you couldnt get good at them
    like a certain someone
     
  7. Ashlag

    Ashlag My god is not a Smiling God Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    There were some really complicated that were just worse moves that the simple ones, and sometimes you just forgot the combos as you couldn't look at them while in a fight AFAIK.
     
  8. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    Thanks for the review. I feel like this banner is underrated. I personally really want to have Edgar joining my breaker line up. Sabin won't be a bad addition either. I threw some tickets at the banner so far and got... Fohlen. If I manage to get Edgar, Lid will be permanently benched, regardless of her enhancements, since there skill sets are very similar. 84% break is just so darn good.
     
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  9. Consarn

    Consarn wife bad, child bad, barbecue good VIP Supporter

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    the worst part is that it wasn't even as satisfying as doing an input in damn near any fighting game
    which made setzer more usable just from how he actively encouraged gambli- i mean, had a really good ultimate weapon
     
  10. Razgriz

    Razgriz "Hall of Fame" Member

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    The guy who flirts with every woman he sees, and almost fall for a 10 year old? Yeah, sure.
     
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  11. Flintzer0

    Flintzer0 Ascended Member

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    Huh. Sometimes I forget that just because they're not top tier doesn't mean they are not good. This is a much better banner than I anticipated. Thanks for the review!
     
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  12. Ashlag

    Ashlag My god is not a Smiling God Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    In optimal conditions, they both are top tier actually. The main drawback is how gimmicky they are compared to the other top contenders, but they stay more than perfectly usable.
     
  13. Seven

    Seven Mildly Active Member VIP Supporter

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    @Memel0rd a bit of a nitpick but wouldn't Sabin be stronger with War Goddess' Insignia?
     
  14. Flintzer0

    Flintzer0 Ascended Member

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    Fair enough. I guess I just tend to see things black and white, and as good and bad, but have recently been reminded of how many things are still excellent if utilized properly.
     
  15. snoman2016

    snoman2016 Ascended Member

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    Sabins actually fair easier to use than a zeno or an akstar. His mod stacks can be w casted the prior turn without hurting the enemy
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  16. pabloamigo

    pabloamigo Ascended Member

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    Current raid boss. Turn two kill (undying spirit turn 1 setup)

    100% Earth imperil
    Earth imbue
    70% def reduction
    Both Sabin's around 2.5k with Asura Materia and Heart Overcoming Hatred
    Friend Sabin Max LB, mine lvl 1
    (spark chains)

    IMG_E2763.JPG

    First time I've hit the dmg cap. He's fun to use.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  17. Randkin

    Randkin Discord Moderator Discord Moderator

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    This banner is pretty great. TOO BAD SABIN HAS A 100% EVADE CHANCE ON MY PULLS.

    But got all the Edgars, so I don't get to bitch. Now to wait for Kefka, and FFV to come....
     
  18. Seven

    Seven Mildly Active Member VIP Supporter

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    But is CG Bartz worth it tho, that's the question...

    HOARD FOR PRINCE NOCTIS!
     
  19. Randkin

    Randkin Discord Moderator Discord Moderator

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    I think he will be. And besides which, I want ExDeath because I'm a shameless nerd that wants the SNES villains to chain together in the same party. Also, Lenna. Lenna is broken.

    Not sure if I'll go for Galuf or WoL's 5*. Buuut probably Galuf.
     
  20. Ashlag

    Ashlag My god is not a Smiling God Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    Ideally I'd want 4 of this guy. But i'm not gonna pull nor go all out on tickets, so... I'm okay with my little Sabin.
     
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