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Esper Training / Esper Skill Tree Recommendations

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Sexwulf, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    About this guide.
    Esper trees selected based on priority given to: Killers, Stats, and Resistances/Passives
    There are many ways to build. Everyone's teams have different needs.
    This may not be the best way for your team but it is my way.

    Overview
    Here is an overview of the stats and abilities of each esper based on JP sorted by order they appear in the story.
    Top 4 running Red->Orange->Yellow->Green for stats based on this guide's recommendations with max possible stat shown in (__)
    May help make some decisions on who to build for stats and who to build for killers.
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Siren

    (Name links to Wikki)

    Best used on no one unless you need the water resist.​

    Siren is bad. Just bad. Save your blue supercytes for better espers like Leviathian.
    Her skills are garbage, stats are weak, and her attack is pretty - but not very effective.
    Her only real use is she offers a passive resistance to sleep and resistances to water based attack.
    For the above reasons I have selected a tree that focuses on her primary use - water resistance and best stats possible for a support unit.

    Siren makes your unit
    50% weaker to lightning
    50% stronger to water and
    At 3* will make you immune to sleep.

    Avoid when enemy uses lightning attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses water attacks.

    [​IMG]

    Alternate build for not leveling siren at all past 3* lvl 1
    [​IMG]


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    Ifrit

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Physical damage units.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. Beast Killer - Increases physical damage by 50% to beast type monsters
    2. Beast Killer+ - Increases physical/Magical damage by 75% to beast type monsters
    3. Plant Killer - Increases physical damage by 50% to beast type monsters
    4. Plant Killer+ - Increases physical/Magical damage by 75% to beast type monsters
    I would love to go for his stat booster reflect skill but there is simply no way to do this without sacrificing a the killers.

    Ifrit makes your unit
    50% weaker to Ice
    50% stronger to Fire and
    At 3* will make you immune to blindness

    Avoid when enemy uses ice attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses fire attacks.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    GOLEM

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Tank units.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. +10% HP - This is a passive for your unit (not the esper)
    2. +10% DEF - This is a passive for your unit (not the esper)
    3. Provoke - Increase chance of being targeted (70%) for 3 turns to caster
    4. I tossed Stonra on there to give him an AOE attack. newer players may want this but you can skip the entire "Stonra" tree if you want to have fewer abilities to scroll past.
    Some will argue the Killer's should take priority. Here is my reasoning for avoiding them.
    There is no possible way to get all 4 killers on this esper.
    Getting the 2 small killers only reduces the boosting to defense by 3 points esper (thanks for pointing this out @Memnarchon).
    It is possible to build him with +113 defense but you have to forego all killers, provoke, and HP+10% to do it.
    This esper is first and foremost a tank esper. Tanks do not typically use killers other than counter tanks like Demon Rain.
    Bug and Stone are two of the most rare monster types so the killers are rarely needed.
    In a pinch you can drop 100 lapis and reset the board for the killers if they are desperately needed for some future trial.
    As always - build how you want - this is not "THE" way. This is just "MY" way.

    I also strongly recommend you avoid "Cover" like the plague. It seems nice at first blush but there are times you will want to use this esper on units that you don't want to have covering other units.

    Golem's esper effect does not do damage therefore his stats only impact is to boost the unit's stats.

    Golem makes your unit
    50% weaker to Wind
    50% stronger to Earth
    At 3* will make you immune to confuse.
    Avoid when enemy uses wind attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses earth attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]



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    SHIVA

    (Name links to Wikki)

    Best used on Magical Damage or Healing units.​
    In the long run Shiva is a well rounded but not overly powerful esper.
    Depending on how you build her she has the 3rd highest potential spirit boost coming in at 105. You will still probably use Carbuncle and eventually Alexander (tied for first at +116 for your healer and magic tanks) however Shiva could be an alternate should you wish to chase the killers on those units.
    Shiva has a real nuce 50% stop resistance which can be nice in the arena.
    1. Stop Through - Increase resistance to stop 50%
      • Stop only - not Charm
    Her other skill are definitely not worth getting. They are so weak you will likely never use them.
    They just take up space when you scroll to find useful skills on your units. Avoid them.

    Shiva makes your unit
    50% weaker to fire
    50% stronger to ice
    At 3* will make you immune to paralysis.
    Avoid when enemy uses fire attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses ice attacks.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Ramuh

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Magical damage units.​

    Ramuh is a tough one.
    You cannot get both Killers & both stat boosters. I recommended stone killer here over demon killer as it allows for the maximum magic power in this strong mage esper.
    You could go for both killers but it weakens the magic power of this esper quite a bit and you have at least 2 other esper sources of demon killer that are stronger than Ramuh.

    Ramuh makes your unit
    50% weaker to water
    50% stronger to Lightning
    At 3* will make you immune to silence.
    Avoid when enemy uses water attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses lightning attacks.

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]
    Diablos

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Magical Damage units.​

    Diablos is a relatively weak esper so I recommend building him for the killers over the stats and resistances.

    Diablos makes your unit
    50% weaker to light
    50% stronger to dark.
    At 3* will make you immune to poison
    Avoid when enemy uses light attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses dark attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]


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    Carbuncle

    (Name links to Wikki)

    Best used on Support and Healer units.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. 10% HP - This passive boost is to the unit using carbuncle, not the esper
    2. 10% SPR - This passive boost is to the unit using carbuncle, not the esper
    3. Dispel - This can be a life saver and is well worth -1 spirit point.
    4. The Last Stand - Increase DEF/SPR (20%) when HP drops below 30%. Not a lot but every little bit helps and its a passive so it doesn't clutter up your ability list with worthless crap like Deshell and Protect. Some may say use Cura but you are gonna put this esper in your healer so Cura is straight up a waste of space.
    5. Cura (Yes I caved on this). @kurizu brought up some valid points about Cura in posts below. He suggested that (especially when running on a physical unit it gives an extra heal spell. He pointed out that during King Mog events its a great way to add a heal to "Bonus" units who may have no heals. He pointed out that you can put Cura on units like Zidane/Locke/PirateJake/Xon to heal units when doing Story events to increase loot. I hadn't considered this angle. It was inspired.
    BUT WHY NO SPIRIT KILLER SEXWULF!
    1) Because it is an attack killer only
    2) Because the loss to base attack stats using carbuncle over a solid attack esper practically makes up for the loss of the killer (exception being spirit based attackers like Lila)
    3) Because you would give up a TREMENDOUS amount of stat boosters and/or passives to get that 50% attack vs spirit
    As always - build how you want - this is not "THE" way. This is just "MY" way.

    BUT WHY NO AUTO-LIMIT SEXWULF!
    Because the best build I can come up with has you suffering:
    -18 Spirit
    -11 Magic
    -11 Defense
    -14 MP
    and though no big loss -10 HP and -5 ATK​
    All for the benefit of getting +1 LS per round. I just don't see the added value in that.

    You can also ditch the 10% HP node and get the last reflection boost for 15 more spirit. However HP is rarely capped on a unit so I prioritized the +10% HP.

    As always - build how you want - this is not "THE" way. This is just "MY" way.

    Carbuncle's esper effect does not do direct damage therefore her stats only impact the bonus to your unit so I skipped some stat boosters that have no impact on your base stats.

    Carbuncle makes your unit
    50% weaker to dark
    50% stronger to light
    At 3* will make you immune to disease
    Avoid when enemy uses dark attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses light attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]



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    Odin

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Physical units.​
    Skills worth getting:
    1. Dragon Killer - Increases damage by 50% & 75% to dragon type monsters
    2. Undead Killer - Increases damage by 50% to undead type monsters
    3. Fingersnap - Physical damage (1.1x) to one enemy. Remove all status effects from one enemy. Its basically dispel with some damage but unlike dispel you can cast this on your own party members to remove debuffs and conditions (like stop).
    No other skill is worth getting even if you had the MP to get there. They are so weak you will likely never use them.
    They just take up space when you scroll to find useful skills on your units. Avoid them.

    at 3* odin is hands down the strongest attack esper with a whopping +121 to your base attack stat. The next closest would be Ifrit@ 110 (if you skipped the killers) and then Titan at +108. Fenrir is +105 but does have an additional +10% passive.

    Because of this very high stat my recommended tree avoids the last dragon killer and undead killer.
    Its just too big of a loss to stats and also dragon killing material are EVERYWHERE.
    I did give an alternate dragon killing tree for those obsessed with killers.

    Odin has no elemental weaknesses or elemental resistances.

    Here are my recommended trees.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.


    RECOMMENDED ODIN BUILD
    Max ePeen stats
    Gain 15 base attack
    but lose 75% dragon killer and 50% undead killer.
    Dragons be everywhere but so are dragon killer mats. Eventually Phoenix offers better undead killers.
    [​IMG]

    ALTERNATE KILLER ODIN BUILD
    Best Attack while maintaining All Killers
    Sacrifice 15 base attack
    but gain 75% dragon killer and 50% undead killer.
    Dragons be everywhere but so are dragon killer mats. Eventually Phoenix offers better undead killers.
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Titan

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Physical Units.​
    Titan has the third highest potential attack (Only 3* Odin and 3* Ifrit being higher). As he has no killers the most sensible build is as a secondary attack esper.

    Competitive Spirit seems like a worthwhile node until you realize its only a 30% chance.

    Titan makes your unit
    50% weaker to wind and
    50% stronger to earth.
    At 3* will make you immune to petrify.
    Avoid when enemy uses wind attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses earth attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]
    Lakshmi

    (Name links to Wikki)

    Wikki says best used on Support and Healer units
    But I say put her on a Physical or Magical Damage unit.
    Will get into why later.​

    Skills worth getting:
    Almost all of them. Unlike other espers Lakshmi is loaded with useful skills.
    1. Charming Protection - +100% Resistance to Charm
    2. Unstoppable Protection - +100% Resistance to Stop
    3. Demonic Whipser - Refresh (10 MP, 0.3x) split over 3 turns to one ally. Not much in the way of batteries but every little bit helps.
    4. The Big 3 Protections: (God sends for those without resistance gear)
      • Softening Protection - Increase resistance to petrify (100%) for 3 turns to all allies
      • Walking Protection - Increase resistance to paralyze (100%) for 3 turns to all allies
      • Assuring Protection - Increase resistance to confuse (100%) for 3 turns to all allies

    Lakshmi's esper effect does not do direct damage therefore her stats only impact the bonus to your unit. Her esper effect does heal the whole party 100% though. This brings me to why I recommend her on a tank unit. Healers already heal. Why give a healer an esper that heals? And support units are freaking busy enough holding the party together every round. They don't have time to do an esper heal. Physical and Magical damage units however.... They have the luxury to skip a round of attacking and do something no damage unit can do. Heal the whole party! And don't discount the MP refresh passive that Lakshmi gives units (something most healers and support have and most DPS dont have)
    Lakshmi - best Esper for Damage Dealers Ever!

    Lakshmi has no elemental weaknesses or elemental resistances.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]


    SPECIAL BONUS ALTERNATE LAKSHMI BUILD
    For people who feel stop and charm resistance are niche and too rarely needed here is the build for you.
    This build gives you:
    1. 14 more HP
    2. 12 more MP
    3. 5 more ATK
    4. 11 more DEF
    5. 8 more MAG
    6. 16 more SPR
    7. +20% HP (for a tank thats over 1000 HP)
    8. +10% Defense (for a 7* that's ~+15 to +20 raw stat)
    9. +10% Spirit (for a 7* that's ~+15 to +20 raw stat)
    10. Access to Kiss of Rebirth (AOE 1150 HP Heal With 8.0X Mod For 3 Turns)
    11. Libra
    This makes her a very nice support esper and a great way to add heals to a tank.
    However you pay the high price of skipping the stop and charm resists.

    I cant help you on this decision. I am still wrestling with it myself.
    [​IMG]
    Thanks to @toooskies for suggesting this build.​



    [​IMG]
    Tetra Sylphid

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Mage units.​

    Tetra is one the strongest mage esper. For my preferred build I avoided the final bird killer as I did not feel it was worth the loss to magic damage with how rare birds are as major bosses. Some will disagree so I offered an alternate "murderbird build"

    Also the power you need to give up for a measly 5% evades seemed unreasonable but some may prefer those nodes.

    As always, these are not necessarily the best builds. They are just "my builds".

    Tetra makes your unit
    50% weaker to earth and
    50% stronger to wind.
    At 3* will make you immune to sleep
    Avoid when enemy uses earth attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses wind attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.
    [​IMG]

    ALTERNATE MURDERBIRD BUILD
    -20 raw magic is a lot to give up for bird killer.
    but if the bird must absolutely die hard and fast - here you go.
    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]
    Bahamut

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Wiki says best used on any units
    Though I recommend using on any but your damage units.
    I will explain why below.​

    Bahamut is pure stats - he has no skills on his tree.

    Bahamut's esper effect does do damage therefore his stats impact the damage he does based on the type attack the esper does.
    His attack does magical damage therefore Magic and Spirit have twice the impact on his damage than Attack and Defense.
    HP and MP have no impact on damage.

    I chose Spirit, Attack, and Magic for my paths because these are the three skills that boost damage inflicting stats (some units do damage based on spirit). This esper has no skills, no passives, and only a single digit boost to stats over other espers. The entire and only reason to use him (other than that dragons are cool) is to drop a nuke esper effect. Bahamut is not an esper for your damage/chaining units. He is a "chain capping esper." You will typically want to nest this esper damage into a nice chain to maximize the damage and therefore won't want this esper on your damage/chaining units.

    Bahamut has no elemental weaknesses or elemental resistances.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 30 this will leave you with 0 unused points.
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Fenrir


    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on hybrid damage units.​

    Best hybrid esper. 4th strongest in each each stat if you build for stats but the best for strength in both.

    Fenrir makes your unit
    50% weaker to fire
    50% stronger to cold.
    25% weaker to light
    25% stronger to dark.
    At 3* will make you immune to petrify (stone)
    Avoid when enemy uses fire attacks.
    Consider avoiding when the enemy uses light attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses wind attacks and dark attacks.

    Here are my two recommended trees.
    One is slightly skewed to magic the other to attack.
    The 10% passive being the biggest difference.
    Personally I would pick the attack form to go with Hybrids as its pretty easy to magic cap a hybrid so physical is nice.
    Which you pick is up to you. They are basically identical.
    At level 60 these will leave you with 0 unused points.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Leviathan

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Mage units.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. Spirit Killer - Increase magical damage against fairies (50%/75%)
    2. Aquan Killer - Increase magical damage against Aquatic Monsters (50%/75%)
    Skills to avoid:
    1. Current - Very weak 1.2x single hit single target physical water attack. Sure it grants a 30% water imperil but by this point in the game you can do much better on imperils. As this esper is a mage esper physical attack abilities are less than attractive.
    2. Ferocious Currrent - Same as above. 0.2x stronger physical water attack but this one is AoE. Still garbage.
    No other skill is worth getting but you will get them anyway as you have to suffer though them to get to the killers (which are top priority).
    Though Leviathan is the 2nd strongest mage esper he is inly slightly stronger than Ramuh. His killers are unique and powerful and you can get both of them. Therefore I chose to build Leviathan for the killers over the stats.

    Leviathan's esper effect does do damage therefore their stats impact the damage they do based on the type of attack the esper does.
    The attack is magical based therefore Magic and Spirit have twice the impact on his damage than Attack and Defense.
    HP and MP have no impact on damage.
    This is another reason to focus on stats over his skills.

    It should also be noted that even at 2* Leviathan will substantially out damage Bahamut if the target is weakened to water.

    Levithian makes your unit
    50% weaker to lightning
    50% stronger to water.
    25% weaker to earth
    50% stronger to wind.
    At 3* will make you immune to silence
    Avoid when enemy uses lightning attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses water attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]

    ALTERNATE SUMMONER BUILD
    Courtesy of @toooskies
    A build that will maximize the damage of this hardest hitting esper in the game.
    (remember to imperil water)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Phoenix

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Mage and Healer units.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. Magic Undead Killer - Increase magical damage against Undead (50%)
    2. Magic Undead Killer Plus - Increase magical damage against Undead (75%)
    3. Raise - sure its only 30% and its only single target but it still never hurts to have a backup raiser for when your healer is busy.
    4. Reraise - Self 3 Turn Auto-Revive with 80% HP can be a life saver (pun intended).
    Skills to avoid:
    1. Lava Skin - its only a 30% resistance buff to earth and fire. Terrible
    Notes about Auto-Potion
    1. It only consumes regular potions
    2. it WILL NOT fail the "No Item" missions
    Phoenix makes your unit
    50% weaker to ice
    50% stronger to fire
    25% weaker to wind and
    25% stronger to earth.
    At 3* will make you immune to disease
    Avoid when enemy uses ice attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses fire attacks.

    Here is my recommended tree.
    At level 60 this will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Alexander

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on Magic Tanks, Healers, and units doing spirit damage.
    And for the eventual robot uprising.

    Skills worth getting:
    1. Machine Killer - Increase magical damage against machines (50%)
    2. Machine Killer+ - Increase magical & physical damage against machines (75%).
    Skills to avoid:
    1. Cover - If this goes off and you cover your cover tank it can ruin your team. NEVER take passive cover.
    Alexander makes your unit
    50% weaker to dark
    50% stronger to light
    25% weaker to water and
    25% stronger to lightning.
    At 3* will make you immune to poison

    Avoid when enemy uses dark attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses light attacks.

    Here are my recommended trees.
    At level 60 these will leave you with 0 unused points.
    I know we can only go to 2%* level 40 right now but both my 3* builds have basically the same core (only the HP tree differs) so for now its an easy decision.

    TREE #1 - Machine Killer build (Recommended)
    We see a lot of machines in this game. A LOT. And this is the only esper that offers machine killer. There are plenty of espers that offer high spirit and tanky stats.​

    [​IMG]

    TREE #2 - Max Spirit 75% less machine killer
    So you say you eat robots for breakfast and shit out iPhones and don't need the 75% killer? Well here is the build that maximizes spirit (tied with Carby for 1st on highest spirit stat esper) Best for Magic tanks, Healers, and units that damage with spirit stat.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Anima

    (Name links to Wikki)


    Best used on support units needing the LB boost.​

    Skills worth getting:
    1. LS+1 - Only esper skill to increase LB fill rate
    2. Lance - Quick way to refill MP (important for support)
    Skills to avoid:
    1. 怨みの魔力 - +80% MAG after HP drops below 30% (GARBAGE)
    2. 水底の闇 - AoE 3 Turn +30% Water/Dark Resist (GARBAGE)
    Anima makes your unit
    50% weaker to light
    50% stronger to dark

    Avoid when enemy uses light attacks.
    Consider using when enemy uses dark attacks.

    Here are my recommended trees.
    At level 40 these will leave you with 0 unused points.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
    Elrond, magcko, Goddess Nyx and 21 others like this.
  2. Mercy

    Mercy Done with forums VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    So... Basically a comprehensive guide of everything @kurizu has already done?
     
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  3. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    Can you link what kurizu did. I couldn't find anything in forums that was less than 8 months old and what I did find gave no, or terrible, recommendations.
     
  4. Mercy

    Mercy Done with forums VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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  5. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    I did see those guides.

    They were very well done.
    However they are great examples of what I meant when I said "the ones I found gave poor advice or were very outdated."

    Although his guides go into much more detail about the espers, their abilities, and how/where to get them we already have a wikki for that.
    Also many of the links on his posts don't work and most images are broken.

    I found that disagreed with a lot of his choices as well.
    For example he seems to prioritizing weak useless skills over stats on espers that do damage with their esper effects.
    Focusing on "as many skills as possible" may have been a good idea 12 months ago but now those skills are so outdated and weak that only a precious few are worth pursuing.


    On some espers he chose HP/MP stats (that add nothing to esper damage) over other available stats (that do).

    Seems he is under the assumption that the only purpose of stats is the 1% boost to the unit abilities.
    Perhaps he didn't realize that esper damage is calculated based on the espers primary (and to a lesser extent secondary) stats.

    And though the impact is minor and I am nitpicking here, in places he stacked MP and HP stats poorly. He did not capitalize on how the bonus total always rounds up. Perhaps not realizing that stat boosts always round up (ie. +105 to MP = +2 to unit MP so there is absolutely no benefit in grabbing the next +20 and +30 MP ability rather than other stats)


    TL;DR
    I wasn't going for a guide all about espers.
    I was targeting a guide based entirely on how to best train espers to maximize their potential with reasons behind each choice based on todays units and gameplay.
     
    Bitzpleze and Max. Plunder like this.
  6. Kiramon

    Kiramon VIP VIP

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    I like your guide, but usually new players look to these — and those same players will likely lack the diversity of units etc where not having Cura (the biggest outlier, IMO) or Stona could hurt them— since most esunas don’t cover stone.

    But hey, still great and will probably get me to reallocate at least 2 of mine that I’ve not touched in a while.
     
  7. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    The only esper with Stona is Lakshmi.
    The only espers with Cura are Lakshmi and Carbuncle.

    They are both pretty deep into the story.
    By the time you are even able to obtain these espers you will have units with better heals than Cura and a pile of golden needles.

    Also to get to Stona you give up on 150 SP worth of training points on Lakshmi and forsake substantially better abilities.
    This for a single target cure petrify spell on an esper who comes with an AoE immunity to stone buff for fewer SP.
     
  8. Pandaranda

    Pandaranda VIP VIP Supporter

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    Cura is great for me despite playing for months. I like being able to heal with support units, especially ones with dualcast but no on the spot healing spell (ie Marie). Sometimes I even heal with mystea since she has free turns in her rotation. This allows me time to do other things besides healing for my main healer ^^

    Apart from Bahamut I don't use any other esper for damage. That said I've always prioritised unit stat buffs over skills, apart from a few gems like killers, dispel, osmose, cura and Libra, all of which I use a lot ^^
     
  9. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    I added this comment to Lakshmi's section
    Some people have argued Cura over Mediguard as mediguard is only ~+100 HP per round. If thats your choice go for it. IMO its a passive that heals a little for free whereas Cura is a very weak heal that no one uses by this esper's point in the game. Its just another spell you will have to scroll past to get to the one you really want. But feel choose your own build. These are just my recommendations.

    I stand by my build of Carbuncle. To get Cura on Carbuncle you would need to give up substantially better abilities. It would be a very bad choice on Carby.
     
  10. Kiramon

    Kiramon VIP VIP

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    To each his own :)

    Marie with dual cast Cura is 4400 ish a turn at my spr and her regen, which results in near full heal for every non tank: :)
     
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  11. Kingguss

    Kingguss LONG LIVE THE KING! VIP Supporter

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    Nice guide for begginers.
     
  12. Dayne

    Dayne Ascended Member Supporter

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    Nice guide man, thx for all the work you put in it!
     
  13. SNova42

    SNova42 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which esper besides Bahamut does significant damage? I don’t see a reason to even factor in the esper summon damage at all. Maxing their stats for the damage would make the summon, what, 10% stronger? Against anything worth troubling over espers do less than 100k damage. Sometimes less than 10k. Why not grab a skill that might be useful at some point (for example, banish is very useful for ‘do light damage’ missions) or whatever else you want (like MP, which I think is very valuable. Sometimes even 1 MP makes the difference between being able to cast your spell and needing to waste one turn)

    For kill with esper missions, I think the best way is to time the esper summon to land after the enemy’s dead. It’s not hard since all espers have long animation. The health range where this is possible is much larger than if you actually aim to kill with the summon. Just make sure the enemy’s gonna fall with your next chain, prepare the esper summon (by your tank or support or healer), start the chain and summon the esper. Or summon the esper and start the chain, depending on how fast your chain is. You’ll have like 3-4 seconds of error window, which isn’t that hard at all. I find it much easier than trying to get a boss’s health down to below 10k.
     
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  14. Klaus

    Klaus Polll0rd VIP Supporter

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    I relly liked your Lakshmi guide. Very good idea.

    But...
    It's FeNRIR. Not FeFNIR.
    AAAAAAAAAAQQAQQQQQQAQCHANGEITTTTTTTT
    MYEEEEEEEYEEEEEEEEESSSS
     
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  15. kurizu

    kurizu Fina -> Sniper Waifu <3 VIP Supporter

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    No offence, but your builds shows that you have no idea about how stats works on espers, while agree on the part that most of my oldest guides are out of meta, I could really make a great list of things you went wrong in your description.

    Pointing the biggest mistakes you made:

    This is untrue, Bahamut esper damage are considered magical type damage thus MAG/SPR stats give higher boost over ATK/DEF boost... that difference goes into :
    (6000+6000+6400/2+6400/2)/100 vs (6400+6400+6000/2+6000/2)/100 => 188 vs 184... the difference is that one of 3% in damage which could not be felt due to the damage variance but it still give impact on these.

    Builds of : Siren/Ifrit/Golem/Ramuh/Titan/Lakshmi/Tetra_Sylpheed/Fenrir shows that you even forget about most basic rule of Espers -> for stat to be applied on unit you need to have a value that is divisible by 100, you put tons of points into single stats like single 40spr on Fenrir or 85 spr on Ramuh that give your units 0 points and waste 10-60 esper points. Even more so they are on death paths for their future 3* grids.

    When I saw you suggesting Mediguard on Lakshmi my hands literally went down, on Meta where damage goes in thousands/ten thousands you gave a suggestion of 50hp passive...
    You are argumenting that Cura is bad in current meta ? How about KM runs where you can make your 50/75/100% bonus unit an additional healer ? what about item farming where you can put esper with Cura on Zidane/Locke/PJake/Xon to heal your units when doing Story events with 1 carry and bunch of loot increasing units... I can see your focus goes mainly on single type of battle which wont even use 80% of skills picked by you. Not even considering missions for certain "deal x type of damage" where its easier to put these 5 points on low lvl skill like banish or bio instead of continuously changing your units gears or units itself ^.-

    Picking Mug over Reduce Encounters... Mug only value is arena for attacking these evade units, Reduce encounter is highly recommended for clearing explorations, if you want to farm anything on exploration you only need to switch Diabolos to different esper, there is more benefits on it that from Mug which lost its meaning upon Ashe/Shantotto/Barbariccia/GLS coming to global. Your argumentation "leave it to items" ? Why should I spent my SQ to get more reduce encounter items when I can keep these SQ for more expensive items incoming.
    Darkside being physical is meh ? Please Diabolos is a source of Demon Killer and Man-eater. These killers are, next to Beast Killer, most often used killers on physical units... I cant say how many times you put Diabolos on your PHYSICAL dps to increase its damage...

    P.s The biggest mistake you did was not putting this thread into Guide section, it will drown in General section within 2-3 days > @Arnatuile Can you move this thread to guide section ?

    P.s2 I like intiative itself, concentrated source in single place is good thing. for that I give you kupo nuts for your hard work, spending time on esper guides takes my time~

    P.s3 After reading myself, I again wrote it in very rude way, sorry~
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  16. Pandaranda

    Pandaranda VIP VIP Supporter

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    Agreed, I often use espers for their elemental skills for story missions and especially story event missions where you can't freely change units and equips between battles. Banish, fire, stonra, blizzara, thundara, aerora, biora (hoping Leviathan comes with a water attack to use too lol) have all been used by my teams for story missions, and cura is definitely great for running teams without a dedicated healer. ^^
     
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  17. Elrond

    Elrond Ascended Member

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    I actually get good use out of Attack song (40% attack), deprotect, and imperil for king mog events. For those trying to use Kryla's hex skus, imperil could also be useful since it affects all elements.
     
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  18. Arnatuile

    Arnatuile Wolf of Lapis Street. Proud Evade user. Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    @Sexwulf I moved the thread to the more appropriate "Guides" section of the forum indeed. As usual, just a reminder that anyone is welcomed to share knowledge they might have about the game and should not be discouraged from doing that. In the same spirit, criticism and requests for clarification should, on one hand, be welcomed and, on the other, should try to represent targeted and focused feedback.
     
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  19. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    I will corrected this on the OP. Tree is I proposed is still correct for building for damage but I wasnt aware Bahamut's attack was magic based. I had read somewhere it was hybrid damage.

    You are incorrect about this. Maybe they changed it recently but I tested it when I reset my espers. As soon as you get a positive value it rounds up to the nearest 100. +10 to an esper stat is the same as +100 (+1 to the unit stat). +110 to an esper stat is the same as +200 (+2 to the unit stat) and so on.

    This is a fantastic argument that I hadn't considered. The only reason I ruled it out was its annoying to constantly scroll past junk in order to find the abilities needed. Mediguard is more 75 - 125 HP but I agree even as a passive its trash
    I will update the suggestions to reflect your comments with credit given.


    It has been my experience that people would prefer being able to increase encounter rate especially for exploration based special events and unit power leveling.
    The problem with reduced encounter on an esper is if you dont want it you have to ditch the esper with it.
    Like Cover (an even worse esper ability) its an ability that sometimes you don't want with no way to turn it off.
    If you want to marry yourself to an "always on" passive that you can only turn off by not using the esper or spending 100 lapis then go for it. My reasoning was simply "I don't take a passive that is sometimes counter productive" Whether or not you want to take Mug is up to you but I strongly dislike restrictive passives.


    When using on a physical unit for the killer effect the damage of Darkside is still very low (Dark physical damage (1.5x) to all enemies). It doesn't chain (1 hit) and is a terrible finishing move. Al this for a high 30% cost to HP with every use.
    If you are using it on a physical unit for the killers then pretty much any 3*+ physical unit will have better, more efficient attacks. Still cant recommend darkside as a skill worth getting even when using it on a physical unit. Its outdated trash.


    Nah that was not a big mistake - that was an accidental over site. And thank you Arn for moving it.

    My biggest mistake was finishing it and posting it while I was drinking. When I reread my comments I came across as insulting and shitting all over your guides which was not cool.

    For that I cry pardon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  20. Sexwulf

    Sexwulf Ascended Member

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    Odin does decent damage.
    Certain espers do good damage when the enemy is weak to their element though you take a risk using them in those cases as they often make you weak to that enemies attack.

    If you prefer to toss out a few % damage increase and a 1-2 points of extra base stats for your unit in favor of taking skills you will likely never use than go for it.
     

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