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Madam Edel & Beloved Edel Stats Assistance Requested

Discussion in 'Equipment & Abilities' started by Ranger114, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Ranger114

    Ranger114 Ascended Member

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    Hi All,

    I have been working the last week on getting the +40% ATTK enhancement on my Beloved Edel. Finally, I got it along with another +5% ATTK. So I was ecstatic! Prior to the enhancement I was doing 2915 in damage fully doored & potted.

    So, I slapped her newly enhanced weapon on and it still shows 2915. I know there are others that got over +60%+ on their Beloved Edel and do over 3200 damage

    My full build is as follows:

    Beloved Edel
    Premium Heart
    Power Amplifier
    Olive’s Journal
    Luneth’s Clothes
    Ravenheart
    Dragon’s Wisdom
    Dual Form
    Hunter’s Trade
    Chocobo Adventure

    13,485 HP
    2915 ATTK
    331 MAG
    517 MP
    492 DEF
    333 SP

    I am not a number and stats guy. I just play for fun. Any advice and feedback that can be offered is greatly appreciated. Perhaps there’s nothing I can do.
     
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  2. Arekusu

    Arekusu VIP VIP

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    13k hp with 300 spr is pretty bad. You need to shore up her spr or add more hp for some of the magic heavy trials.
     
  3. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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    You probably hit 400% stats passive cap already. I think you cam remove some redundant stuffs to open room for survivability.

    Personally, 13k HP looks fine, but 300 SPR looks worrisome if you aim for upper-end trials. 500 DEF is also a little low for phy dmg dealer.

    Offensive-wise, I strongly recommend you leaving some room for killer materias. Frankly, at 2.7k 50% killer boost your dmg a lot more than 60% ATK passive.
     
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  4. victor sant

    victor sant "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    It seems this is the build without esper, even then, you should fully pot her SPR.
    With the gear you have, she should have a minimum of 361 SPR fully potted.

    Also, you are really overcapping her ATK.
    Even without IW buffs, the gear you have already caps her atk atk 400%:
    Beloved Edel +50%, Power Amplifier +30%, Ravenheart +20%, Olive Journal +50%, Dragoon's Wisdom +70%, Chocobo Adventure +30%, Hunter's Trade +40%, Passives +110% = 400%

    You can change your materias to fit more defensive ones instead and open slot for killers.

    One thing I would recomend is dropping Luneth clothes and using Catastrophic Vest. losing 45 ATK (already counting the TDW bonus) to gain +15% HP and 30 SPR.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  5. Ranger114

    Ranger114 Ascended Member

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    Appreciate the advice. I haven’t potted anything but HP (pot as I get more) and the ATTK. Plan on adding some more pots to her SP and DEF.

    Again, apologize for not understanding the stats and cap thing, but how am I seeing Friend’s Madam Edels with over 3200 attk? Why wouldn’t I be able to achieve the same? Oh, and I do have Odin as her Esper
     
  6. illy

    illy no more udon VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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  7. Regalia

    Regalia Professional Cat VIP Supporter

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    Firstly, for fluffing heck, EQUIP HER TMR. It's 70% ATK AND GRANTS HER GUTS! The second part will keep her alive, while the first may mean you can swap some materia around.

    Secondly, you are not fully doored and potted. Fully potted plus an esper, I'd believe, but not Doored. You'd be looking at more like ~13.9K HP and ~2990 ATK:
    https://ffbeEquip.com/builder.html?server=GL#50080f40-6f25-11ea-8e1c-0f5c05b763e9

    Something like this might work better, if you have another accessory that boosts TDW, like CG Buttz or CG Onion Knight:
    https://ffbeEquip.com/builder.html?server=GL#4f9e0d60-6f26-11ea-8e1c-0f5c05b763e9

    Neither of those have espers attached, so the stats will actually be a bit higher. The second one leaves a space for killers (Dragon Killer+ as a place holder), because like @aa25 mentioned, a killer materia is much more valuable than a couple of hundred extra ATK.


    ==========================================
    Stats are broken down into two pools, so to speak, which each have a bonus that scales off of them. The base stat of the unit (without equipment or passive abilities, but INCLUDING poots and doors) and the stats they get from their equipment.

    If you look at Edel's passives, or at the IW enhancements, you'll see things like "+40% ATK" or "+50% ATK when equipped with a gun." These scale off of the unit's base stats and max out at +400% total.

    The other type of bonus are the TDW/TDH, which read something like "+50% equipment ATK when equipped with two weapons" or "... when equipped with a weapon in one or both hands." These scale off of the stats you get from equipment, and max out at 200% for dual wield, or 300% for double hand.

    Edel... maxes out both, rather easily. That's actually why the +40% ATK on the gun is important, because it means she maxes out FASTER, leaving more room for non-ATK materia.

    You've actually got 250% TDW on there due to the Dual Form + Ravenheart, so if you have an accessory with TDW, you can swap that in for Olive's Journal and then drop the Dual Form, freeing up a materia slot. TDW accessories tend to have +40 ATK, so you won't be losing anything in that regard. Alternately, you can swap out the Ravenheart for something else, but you'll want the raw ATK for the TDW to scale off of, and ATK accessories tend not to offer much else.
     
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  8. Masvroh

    Masvroh "an elder brother" VIP

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    Cap = limit.
    There is a limit for increasing stats.
    We have three primary stats limits.
    1. Passive stats = limit 400%
    2. TDH = 300%
    3. TDW = 200%

    If you look on the build @Regalia has simulated from your equipments,
    [​IMG]
    See the red number?
    The left one is the passive stats while the right is TDW boost limit. You are over limit with those two.

    Basically, before you had rare on Beloved Edel, your passive stats were already 415%, and it's already over the cap. Once you reach the limit, you won't get stats increase from passive boost. And then increasing your passive stats with another 45% obviously won't increase it further.

    If you wonder why some peope can build her with 3200 ATK, It's fully stacked with STMRs and fully potted & door'd.

    If you still want to increase her ATK further, use gears with high raw ATK (basically STMRs) after you reach both passive and TDW limit.

    Seriously tho, you can reach 3035 ATK by changing Platinum Heart with Tiger Fang and Ravenheart with Seraph Comb on your build.

    Non-STMR build can reach 3100 ATK build however.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Regalia

    Regalia Professional Cat VIP Supporter

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    Yeah, those seraph combs are key to a lot of Epeen builds. The only higher ATK accessory is probably Sabin's STMR.

    The thing to keep in mind is that materia slots never offer any flat equipment stat bonuses, so if you want something for your TDH or TDW to scale off of it has to come from the other equipment slots. On the other hand, you can find much higher % gains from materia than you generally can from anything else. On equipment, 50 and 60% stat bonuses are quite rare, as are more than a 50% resist to a single element (or more than 100% total), and I've never seen above 50% TDW or TDH. Materia frequently have as much as 70 or sometimes 80% stat boosts, can have more than 200% total elemental resists, and up to 100% TDH/TDW.

    Percentile boosts for HP are especially disparate in this regard. I don't think there are any pieces of equipment that offer more than a 20%, even at STMR level, while 30, 40, or even 50% boosts aren't unheard of on materia - and each 10% is easily 500+ HP added to your total, regardless of what unit it is. High powered DEF/SPR boosts are a bit less rare, but the dichotomy is still there.

    That's why stuff like CG Buttz and CG Onion Knight's TMRs are favored for TDW builds. They offer a strong mix of flat +ATK and TDW%, and leave your materia slot free for other uses. Sure, you lose some raw stats, but you can fit an extra 30% HP and 20% DEF/SPR, add in some element resists, or slap on a killer and increase your damage by 50-75% against a specific boss.

    Which brings me to the second point, one that we should probably be blunt about: It's a very good tradeoff, in general. That killer is worth a heckin lot more than a couple hundred more ATK, and the extra survivability is worth it.

    EDIT: There is equipment that offers 30%+ HP boosts, but it's all either limited or STMR quality. The "HP +30%" materia is only a 3* TMR, and those levels of bonus are much more readily available.
     
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  10. Ranger114

    Ranger114 Ascended Member

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    Thanks all! I used a friend’s unit this morning that had a Beloved Edel enhanced with +59 and sitting at 3117, so I am wondering, why the hell can’t I?

    I think I am understanding some now. I always fully door and pot my top damage dealers, so that has been done. I will be doing so with the defense and spring and play around with the equipment slots. I will also keep the “killers” advice in mind. Thanks again!

    Edit: Masvroh, I don’t have her TMR equipped, because 3 of the 4 I am using offer the HP, DEF, SPR, increases as well as good ATTK. I just switched out Dual Form Form the Madam’s TMR and my attack dropped 200 points

    Regalia, I equipped the Seraph’s Comb and then switched in Zantetsuken, which has high ATTK enhancements and I am now at 3001. I think I will be happy with this and boost the rest of her up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  11. iBuko

    iBuko “Common sense is not that common” VIP Supporter

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    Her tmr gives her double guts.
    It's mandatory for her Imo.
    She can equip everything. Focus on killers and bulkiness.
    She can do tons of damage even with less atk, trust me.
     
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  12. Regalia

    Regalia Professional Cat VIP Supporter

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    Dis. Especially the double guts. Survive twice at 1 HP when she would otherwise die? Yes, please.
     
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  13. Masvroh

    Masvroh "an elder brother" VIP

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    As said above, her own TMR is pretty much mandatory for survival as she has low SPR. Double guts kinda help it.

    And... uh... that.. you basically did further over limit her passive boost. Your initial build already has 60% wasted now she has 130% wasted. And removing Dual Form means Edel has 150% TDW now (previous build has 250% TDW boost) which obviously would reduce her ATK.

    If you remove Dual form, switch out Olive's STMR with Bartz's or Awakened Onion Knight's TMR so she has 200% TDW boost.

    Also, you don't need to give her many materias with mixed offense and defense to make her bulky. She easily reaches 400% passive limit and 200% TDW limit and left 2 materia slots empty. You can insert them with dedicated defensive materias which should be better than the mixed ones. Example :
    Your build :
    [​IMG]

    Suggested build :
    [​IMG]
    Both weapons only has rare enhancements.

    See the difference? They have the same ATK but the second build is more bulky and it has 2 guts due to TMR passive.
     
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  14. victor sant

    victor sant "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Stats passive accumulates only up to 400%, anything beyond that is ignored. You have to balance the ammount of flat ATK and % ATK effects to acheive the max ATK.

    Flat ATK comes from equipment, % ATK comes from passives, materias and some effects on equipment (like IW bonus)

    For edel, that have a lot of innate passive ATK % (specially with Beloved Edel + IW rare), it is generally better to use materias to get the TDW bonus (CG Lightning's TMR, Phyalis TMR, Nagi STMR) instead of accesories and use the accessory slot for higher flat ATK (Red XIII TMR/STMR, Queen STMR)

    Olive's journal specially has relatively lower flat ATK with too much % ATK. It is good to free materia slots for bulk, but not for maxing the ATK.
     
  15. Ranger114

    Ranger114 Ascended Member

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    Once again, thank you everyone! I think I am understanding now and I have her set up as you suggested, Masvroh! Thank you for the time showing me the build and to everyone for reinforcing what to do!
     
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