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Scorn of Demon Wall Help

Discussion in 'Team Help' started by Phinny, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Phinny

    Phinny Ascended Member

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    Sigh... I feel like the answer is right in front of me. Why am I having so much trouble when so many say how easy it is?

    Turn 13, 48% remaining, wiped three units, no recovery from it.

    Rikku - breaking and mirage (not even sure that Vajra did anything)
    Lenna - preventative measures, MP healing, dualcasting dispel and gravity when needed
    AWoL - passive and active provoking, physical mitigation, barrier, backup healing
    P.Cecil - LB general mitigation and generally staying on dark side for 80% earth and MP heals
    (DPS - either 2 Bartz or 2 AKRains, depending on who I can grab off friend lists...in this last case, AKR)

    Turn 11, pushed the 50% threshold, survived it easily
    Turn 12, due to the dispel, had to set buffs back up: Cecil's LB mitigation, WoL's phys mitigation, etc.
    Turn 13, pushed down to 48%, had Cecil cover and use his 80% earth protection. Rikku, Lenna, AKR... all take multiple 5K-6K hits and eat dirt. What the hell just happened??
    Everyone had about 575-600 defense minimum and base 100% vs. earth before buffs. I checked and all the buffs/mitigations were up... I was using Gonzy's approach as a template and of course am using the Wikia... Is it just simply not having a dedicated buffer to get some extra defense? Or is it a fixed attack and there's nothing I can do anyway? It went by so quickly that I missed the description of the attack. Here and there, I hear "just have enough earth defense and the Demon Wall is easy"... really?? I feel like such a noob!! ::cry:::confused::(
     
  2. Sartre

    Sartre "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Breaks were reapplied? I'm assuming you got hit with a double Landslide Clash, which is a fixed physical attack that hits pretty damn hard. Since it's fixed it doesn't respond to physical mitigation either, only general mitigation, but you said you had Cecil's mit up which is as good as you're gonna get. Did everyone have DEF buff? I found that WoL's LB is what saved the day for me on this trial, especially since it's a 250% buff when maxed and can't be dispelled.

    I feel like with your team you should be able to beat this trial, so something is missing here. Don't lose heart, this trial is definitely not easy. Only if you have XWQL is this trial "easy".
     
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  3. BigNBald5

    BigNBald5 Smashing trials the bald way VIP Supporter

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    What turn the demon wall is on for his rotation really really makes a huge difference on what you should do after that 50% threshold is crossed... here are a few scenarios:

    I was able to win with Tifa as my dps. AKR and having to wait for his LB to get up kinda sucks ass on the demon wall. Plus AKR spr stat sucks ass. also remember after "the demon wall has started moving" to dispel that buff.

    Even tho it is only 10% it really makes a difference.

    Since Lenna has Triple white magic you can dispel, reraise herself and curaja the team in one go. Lenna with a dual cast and gravity actually may work even better, you can dispel and do gravity with her if your team doesnt need to be healed that round (it is what I did with my support Sylvie, so maybe this is better on Rikku than Lenna)

    If you are still using AKR, you can take advantage of his dispel so Lenna can put up her mitigation and break resist. You might actually not want to protect your team from stone, it actually saved me in this trial when my dps got stoned instead of dead.

    The only one Stone will really hurt you on is if P. Cecil gets stoned (LOL)

    Or you can save Rikku CD until after 50% so she can auto revive the team after the dispel went thru.

    2 Bartz might be too much damage and push thru multiple thresholds after powering up, which will cue up double dispels (every threshold, a dispel will be used on the next turn)

    Another thing you can do is make sure you have AWoL LB ready for after 50% so your P Cecil can go right back into AOE mag cover (in case Mighty Tremor is used), Earth resist, and use one of his attacks (so he will get hit with the counter instead of someone else) plus AWoL LB will trigger the 2nd counter to hit him instead of your dps.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  4. Isaac

    Isaac "Hall of Fame" Member

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    This is not easy at all. It was the hardest thing ever and it took me twenty tries. Screw anyone who said it was easy. I enhanced like three or four different units (each one failing) in my pursuit to win. Units that have multiplier skills that can be dispelled are no good because on top of the random strong defense buffs, you get periodically dispelled. With Rain I could not get the demon below 10%. In the end I used Godrea i believe; she could not be dispelled and only need one turn to ramp up, and was decently strong with no ramp up turn. A unit like that is best. I tried Tifa and Aurora Freyvia too. they are at least better than rain rotation wise.
     
  5. Isaac

    Isaac "Hall of Fame" Member

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    @Sartre was right when he said "Only if you have XWQL is this trial easy"
     
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  6. Chrizz

    Chrizz "Hall of Fame" Member

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    You didn't say that you reapply the breaks... Maybe that's your problem? Otherwise you sounds pretty much good to go...
     
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  7. Sagranth

    Sagranth "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    Or Bartz.
    Or Madam.
    Or basically any damage dealer in the last six months.
     
  8. Sartre

    Sartre "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    I don't see Bartz beating this trial in 4-6 turns. But DPS isn't really the issue here, it's survival. @BigNBald5 gave some great advice so I'll be interested to see what the OP says to this.
     
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  9. Sagranth

    Sagranth "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    He doesn't have to. He is ideal for this fight.

    Good equipment selection.
    Good defensive passives.
    Undispellable 200% stat buffs.
    Main chain move carries imperil.
    Easy to set up burst when needed,and his rotation also matches Wall's movements.
    Performs really well with only tmr gear.

    He might not be the fastest,but extremely reliable.
     
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  10. Sartre

    Sartre "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    I agree with you completely. Still doesn't make the trial easy. Just doable.

    My point was simply that if you have a unit like XWQL who can skip the majority of the trial mechanic shenanigans by blowing it up in a few turns then it's easy. If you actually have to play though the trial through all the thresholds then it is not so easy. Maybe easy for you, but not for others.
     
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  11. BigNBald5

    BigNBald5 Smashing trials the bald way VIP Supporter

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    Bartz by default will not win in 4-6 turns, he has to power up for literally 4 turns before he brings the pain. Doesnt really do damage until turn 5, and the wall would have already wrecked some havoc if you havent planned properly. He is viable for the fight tho, but I wouldnt use him. costs wayyy too much if he dies.
     
  12. Skye

    Skye "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I had a very different party than you (WKN - Machina - Aerith - Ignis - Yun - Yun), but the one thing I remember tweaking is putting more DEF on my units. I literally geared my units primarily for DEF, along with elemental resists and HP. I tried having 900+ unbuffed DEF, which became around 1300+ buffed DEF. This with 50% general and 40% physical mitigation. A bit less for the damage dealers, where I had reraise ready and defended on turns when it was needed.
     
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  13. Phinny

    Phinny Ascended Member

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    Thank you! I am 99% sure breaks were reapplied, yes. Used Rikku's LB, too. And yup, Cecil's LB is maxed. Sadly, no easy-route for me. Not a single XWQL (got a 7* Foo, though, lol).
     
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  14. Phinny

    Phinny Ascended Member

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    @BigNBald5 Yes! I forgot AWoL's LB defense cannot be dispelled, maybe using that at critical points will help. I love the idea of waiting to use Rikku's LB, too, or hell, even figure out how to have Lenna's LB up after the party-wide dispel, although she'll probably be busy providing the ailment defenses. I have a Tifa I could use, but am not familiar with her ramp-up, and I would have to find a good partner with stone killers. I actually have two Bartzs, totally equipped and fight-ready, decent stone killers on both, but it would require finding a friend tank...which is entirely possible.

    @Isaac Thanks for the validation; I thought I was crazy. I love A.Fry and perhaps I could give her a shot, too, although the A.Frys out there are dwindling in number.

    @Chrizz As the second person to suggest this, it's really making me question!! I wish I took screen caps of the status before I ended the fight. Man, that'd be amazing if that's all it was. I'd much rather it be a stupid move I made than something unknown, ya know?

    @Sagranth @Sartre Yes, for me, DPS isn't too much of an issue here. Sure, the AKR off-LB turns kinda stink, but then the LB melting turns seem to make up for it. They are a pain to keep up, though, due to the dispel mechanisms and what not. Having the two Bartz are fun, too, but I definitely wasn't seeing anything in the 4-6 turns span. It's possible I could find a better Bartz friend, or use my own second Bartz (both 3000 ATK, 275% and 50% stone killers respectively) and do another run to see how it goes. Double-dispel rounds doesn't sound like fun for the rest of the team, though, if I pass multiple thresholds. Maybe I can work around that...

    Here are my takeaways so far:
    Phys mitigation does nothing for the phys fixed damage, only general,
    Double-check that you broke after demon wall raises his atk or if debuffs have worn off, particularly after 3rd push, using Rikku's CD,
    Bring Bartz as his rotation lines up well with demon wall,
    If using AKR, consider his own dispel, leaving Lenna to provide her CD mitigation

    Anything else? I can't thank you guys enough for the feedback!! Appreciate it!! Now to try it again....
     
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  15. Backosteel

    Backosteel Ascended Member Supporter

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    This trial was hard for me. Not quite as hard as the original Machina of Destruction, but a pain. I had to figure out the proper rotation, right units, and a way to deal enough damage while keeping defenses up high enough. Bartz wasn't hitting hard enough for me (I probably wasn't patient enough waiting for a whale geared friend Bartz). With Tifa, I was able to get it at 18 turns. Definitely not easy for me. And I have madam (too squishy and earth element isn't helpful), and Bartz. My problem with them was I had to slog through the later rounds with random and unpreventable death, which each time hit one of my damage dealers. For Madam and Bartz, that is a really expensive death.

    My team was eTifa (@Wdiggums still has a beastly eTifa up for the wall), Sylvie, Doc Aiden, P Cecil, and Fid. Doc Aiden, Syvlie, and Fid each had sources of gravity so I could make sure I had someone who could use it based on their rotations. Doc Aiden's delayed turn reraise was super nice for the dispel rounds, knowing your team would start with reraise after the dispel. The biggest thing for me was making sure I never missed a turn with breaks, and that I could reapply the earth buff, the general mitigation, and a Def buff after getting dispelled. That is another way that Doc Aiden was helpful. He has an ~8k heal that applies a decent Def buff.
     
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  16. Kaladin

    Kaladin "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I did the same thing. I failed a handful of times with Rain but then kicked it's butt with Tifa. Plus, by then I had a general understanding of how the rotation went (i don't study the wiki lol).
    Just make sure your mitigations are up, boss is dispelled & broken, team isn't dispelled. Be sure to use a breaker that can break as often as you need them to since you need to dispel and break often.
    I still have my Tifa on my friend list, setup for the Wall if anybody still needs to borrow her.
     
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  17. Sagranth

    Sagranth "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    Imo,you can drop WoL if you have enhanced Ignis,and let Cecil eat the st(they aren't that bad due to his constant 75% mit) with passive provoke. The reason is,WoL really doesn't contribute much,due all aoe physicals being fixed(only his lb buff). And Ignis by himself easily keeps up the 50% general mit and earth res/mp,and Cecil can still buff def/spr if you find his buffs too low. If you have Folka,imo she is also a great choice due to her on demand barriers.

    And if you need a Bartz set up for Wall,you can send me a request,i can set up a decent one(225% stone killer,120% earth res,15k hp,decent def/spr).
     
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  18. Skye

    Skye "Hall of Fame" Member

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    You're talking about Flowing Waters +2, right? I'm not sure that would be exceptionally good here, because although a 2000 HP barrier is nice, you don't get much benefit from the rest of the ability. If you want barriers, Aerith, D.Aiden or Sakurayaka offer generally better options.

    Though as much as I appreciated Aerith's barriers in this fight, I appreciated her delayed heals even more, this allowed me to have full heal and DC with Dispel on the Gravity turns (this way my healer took care of the sealing as well as the Dispel, without compromising on the healing).
     
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  19. BigNBald5

    BigNBald5 Smashing trials the bald way VIP Supporter

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    yes Aeirth was queen of this trial, especially if you did her delayed heal on the same turn that you needed to dispel/gravija. you can skip that turn on healing so Aerith can DC (you need regular DC on her) and save your team a bunch of grief, LOL
     
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  20. Phinny

    Phinny Ascended Member

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    Thank you so much, I think I will send a request. I just had another excruciating defeat at 7%, but I think I made a few errors in judgment. I also used a great Bartz but he was not equipped with a wind weapon as I was and I was not imbuing...sooo... I don't think I was element chaining, right?
    Also, I do not have a 7* Ignis, only eIgnis 6*.

    You'll see Phinny pop up, with a LB-enriched A.Rain vs. humans.
     

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