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Seighard vs wilhelm

Discussion in 'Team Help' started by Seto, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Seto

    Seto Ascended Member Supporter

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    I pulled a second seighard pulling for bonus units, and just got a 4th merc ramza.

    Until now I’ve never considered replacing wilhelm with anyone.

    Is it worth it to fully pot seighard, If i already have a maxed out wilhelm?

    Just wondering who would be better, most guides and reviews have them essentially equivalent. But was wondering would having merc ramzas stmr make seighard a noticeable or at least useful step up vs wilhelm? Assuming both are fully potted and using their own tmr.

    Both with same build except seighard would be using merc Ramza stmr shield.
     
  2. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    Seigfart smells funny, Wilhelm does not.
     
  3. aa25

    aa25 VIP VIP

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  4. CoepoeBanget

    CoepoeBanget Ascended Member

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    The most significant difference for me is TMR ability and its relation to passive 100% provoke.

    Wilhelm can only reach 70% passive provoke if you don't want to lose his TMR ability. Meanwhile, Sieg can get 100% passive provoke without sacrificing (almost) anything. With the Wrapped Gift accessories available, you don't have to use that horrible K Producer's Jacket anymore.

    Comparing the two, I would go for Sieg since his rotation is much more flexible. You can equip Rikku's Pouch to give him some supportive role. The only downside with Sieg is that he doesn't have any counters that attacks the enemy (which might help fill the LB gauge).
     
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  5. Raelf

    Raelf "Hall of Fame" Member

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    As a tank overall, Sieghard is better, though only a slight upgrade from Wilhelm. Sieghard's LB is 3 turns though and can damage, instead of a 1 turn buff for the party. They're not really different, but you could level both for arena.
     
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  6. Senturion

    Senturion VIP VIP

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    I have both and prefer Wilhelm. He has more Damage Mitigation from his LB and he also have a nice counter. Wilhelm also does not cause a team wipe unlike Sieghard due to his disastrous ST cover ability.

    Put Sieghart TMR on Wilhelm is the most ideal :)
     
  7. Talien

    Talien Element resistl0rd VIP Supporter

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    Oh yes, I keep forgetting about Seigfart's cover. Why does gumpi insist on putting those lameass random ST covers on otherwise useful units? They almost never actually do any good and usually just screw things up.
     
  8. Senturion

    Senturion VIP VIP

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    He has a nice TMR though... so put it on Wilhelm and you are set to go.

     
  9. Isaac

    Isaac Ascended Member

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    I would level both if I had the option. Sieghard is better at
    Automprovoke. With autoprovoke I can still get Sieg above 24k hp and 1200 def. the autoprovoke makes everything so nice and lazy i never took it off. So, for trials where autoprovoke really helps you will want Sieg. For trial where you need counters, willy is there. As for the autocover, it’s not a real problem. Just put Siegel in the last slot if you are worried. It has literally never proced for me. You got a really good “problem” here
     
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  10. Masvroh

    Masvroh "an elder brother" VIP

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    As tanking goes, Sieghard is better. He has better stats than Wilhelm and his tanking kits are much better.

    Wilhelm has 3-turn rotation. He has 40% global mitigation in his provoke for 3 turns and 54% AoE global mitigation for 1 turn. He can reliably spam his LB so he can activate it every 3 turns. It is a really good move to deal with nuke threshold attacks. The mitigations are huge. Works well with Seaside Nichol because he has type mitigations to stack with Wilhelm's global mitigation. Making him more bulky.

    Meanwhile, Sieghard (without auto-provoke) only has 2-turn rotation. But fewer rotation doesn't mean weaker than 3-turn rotation. In fact, Sieghard has an advantage with his 2-turn rotation. His provoke ability unlocks a cover ability with better average mitigation and grants him 3 mirages to negate 3 attacks. A cover tank's duty is protecting all 6 members from AoE attack, redirecting all 6 damages to the tank. Since the mirage negates 3 attack, Sieghard only receives 3 damages, effectively reduces the AoE damage by half. Since his rotation is 2-turn, he takes half damage of a physical AoE attack (or first 3 physical attacks) every 2 turns. Receiving less damage greatly. Siegdard's provoke also grants him 40% physical type mitigation, which stacks with global mitigations. Making him more bulky.

    If he is built with auto-provoke build, Sieghard has 3-rotation. His third turn ideally is his LB. The LB has AoE 45% global mitigation for 3 turns. The mitigation is lower than Wilhelm's but it lasts longer. Thanks to the big AoE mitigation for 3 turns, Sieghard's LB is arguably stronger than Wilhelm's LB. It costs 30 LS but it's actually spammable thank to his innate 150% LB fill rate. And his LB mitigation stacks with his provoke's mitigation. So you don't need other unit to cast mitigation buffs since Sieghard can stack his mitigations by himself if you can activate it every 3 turns.


    Wilhem does better with support to generating LB stones with his counter. Thanks to his counter, you can quickly fill up your LBs.
    Though, if you have Assasin's Dagger and equip it to Sieghard, Seighard can also do counter up to 3 times.

    The ST cover from Sieghard can screw you up in some occasions. Especially if you bring 2 kinds of cover tank in a fight with both AoE Physical and AoE magic dealing damage to your team. He might cover the other cover tank (magic tank), making the magic tank can't jump in and protect your party from AoE magic. This often results to your team being wiped out.

    But such disaster, however, only occured if you decided bringing a physical cover tank and a magical cover tank altogether.

    Which means you won't face the disaster if you only bring Sieghard as a cover tank. Fortunately, with meta breakers you don't need to use 2 cover tanks team to clear all current contents.
     
  11. Novaultima

    Novaultima VIP VIP

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    100% draw and 60% attack/magic break from turn 1 so as way better LB gauge filler -> Wilhelm wins.

    Also it depends on what you need, but i like his 70% def+spr aoe buff and 50% attack+mag+lb aoe buff as well.

    Using this rotation on him, i don´t need any buffer anymore for anything:
    Primal -> General´s Command -> free turn

    or

    D Rod/Sword Crusher -> Primal -> General´s Command

    Breaks if needed sometimes, but most of my units can break.
     
  12. Seto

    Seto Ascended Member Supporter

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    Looks like general consensus is seighard is slightly better but not worth switching to, I wasn’t really considering switching until I got merc ramzas stmr, and the only reason is because wilhelm is locked to his own shield
     
  13. Arekusu

    Arekusu VIP VIP

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    This topic has been beaten to death lol. No offense intended to you lol, you don’t know.

    They’re both great tanks, but going forward Sieg is unequivocally better. He can reach 100% passive provoke much easier than Wilhelm which us the ideal setup for your tanks in the future.

    Wilhelm offers a slightly better LB and counters (which Sieg can easily get with an enhanced Assassin’s Dagger). But the trade off is base stats, I.E. survivability essentially.
     
  14. Manveru

    Manveru "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I used Noctis as a provoke tank more often than I used Wilhelm. Actual situations where your physical tank is not evade are rare.

    Worry about the "future" when it gets here, not half a year before.
     
  15. Isaac

    Isaac Ascended Member

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    Haven't used my full evade kit once I got my 7 Sieg. And I leave my 100% auto-provoke on him and he still gets +2400hp and +1200 def. In short, Sieg is beautiful. I look back at my pre-Sieg days as an ugly alternate reality of ugliness, devoid of any charm whatsoever.
     
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  16. Manveru

    Manveru "Hall of Fame" Member

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    I know it's cool and convenient. I'm just saying that you don't need it for anything.
     
  17. Seto

    Seto Ascended Member Supporter

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    This wasn’t really meant to be a Seighard vs Wilhem thread more so a discussion if Willem being locked to his shield and limited equipment options hinders him compared to seighard.
     
  18. Arekusu

    Arekusu VIP VIP

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    Yes to both is the tl;dr
     
  19. Frosty Toast

    Frosty Toast PETA Approved VIP Supporter

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    Sieg is MUCH more future proof than willy for reasons stated above. However, this does NOT mean that willy is trash
     
  20. Scheich

    Scheich "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Atm Wilhelm does everything u need him to do. But it never hurts to have options for every role, as Sieg does some things way better, and others worse. Depends on what u need. I use Wilhelm, Sieg, Merc R, Glad,... depending on the trial and what helps my team most.
     
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