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Unit Review: Cloud (Final Fantasy VII)

Discussion in 'Unit Reviews' started by Memel0rd, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    A young man at the center of a struggle to save his planet on a distant world. Cloud is a former Shinra SOLDIER, an elite group within Shinra's private army. After a request from his childhood friend Tifa, he joins the terrorist group AVALANCHE in their mission to destroy one of Shinra's mako reactors. Amidst the fighting he meets a flower girl by the name of Aerith, whom he attempts to save after she is captured by Shinra and taken to their headquarters. This is where Cloud learns that the legendary SOLDIER Sephiroth has somehow come back to life.
    One of the most iconic FF characters of all time, here he is! Long time hyped but let's see how good he actually is :).

    [​IMG] Cloud Review by Memel0rd[​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In-Game Sprites:
    [​IMG] 5*
    [​IMG] 6*

    Equipment Selection: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    No innate weaknesses | No innate resistances
    Trust Master Reward: Buster Style (Materia) - Increase equipment ATK (100%) when single wielding any weapon
    Increase Accuracy (25%) when single wielding any weapon

    6* Stats at Lvl. 100:
    HP: 3712 (+390) Mag: 136 (+26)
    MP: 165 (+65) Def: 120 (+26)
    Atk: 160 (+34) Spr: 129 (+26)

    6* Limit Burst:
    Omnislash (Base / 30 LB-Crysts): 15-Hit Physical damage (8.1x) with ignore DEF (50%) to one enemy
    Omnislash (Max / 30 LB-Crysts): 15-Hit Physical damage (10.5x) with ignore DEF (50%) to one enemy

    5*: Lvl 1 Brave Slash (18 MP / 1-Hit) - Physical damage (2x) to one enemy

    5*: Lvl 16 Cross Slash (20 MP / 5-Hit) - Physical damage (3x) to one enemy
    Inflict paralyze (80%) to one enemy

    5*: Lvl 57 Blade Beam (30 MP / 2-Hit) - Physical damage (3x) to all enemies

    6*: Lvl 28 Climhazzard (52 MP / 1-Hit) - Physical damage (2.75x) with ignore DEF (50%) to one enemy

    6*: Lvl 49 Meteor Rain (45 MP / 8-Hit) - Physical damage (1.8x) with ignore DEF (50%) to all enemies

    6*: Lvl 100 Finishing Touch (45 MP / 1-Hit) - Physical damage (4x) to all enemies
    5*: Lvl 40 Fleeting Illusion - Chance to ignore fatal damage (50%) when HP is above 40% (max 3 times)

    5*: Lvl 80 SOLDIER 1st Class - Increase HP/MP (50%) and ATK/DEF/MAG/SPR (30%)

    6*: Lvl 1 Vanguard - Increase equipment ATK (100%) when single wielding any weapon
    Increase Accuracy (25%) when single wielding any weapon

    6*: Lvl 72 Jenova Cells - Increase resistance to blind, sleep, confuse, and disease (100%)

    6*: Lvl 81 Fighting Instinct - Chance to counter physical attacks (30%) with normal attack
    Chance to counter magic attacks (30%) with normal attack

    6*: Lvl 93 Agressive - Increase LB gauge (3) each turn


    Pros:
    Cloud, Cloud, Cloud...

    Cloud starts off with massive base stats. Huge base HP, decent MP, the best base ATK in the game with a max of 194, decent DEF/SPR stats. And on top of that, 50% HP/MP passives and 30% all stat passives with SOLDIER 1st Class! Cloud is really really beefy. Massive overall stats.

    Being immune to pesky status ailment is always a great thing and Cloud can do exactly that. Blind, Sleep, Confuse and Virus resistance? Yeah, that's nice. Glad to see this because the first three status ailments really are annoying. Praise the Jenova Cells.

    But regarding his survivability, he actually gets another boost. Cloud will be able to ignore fatal damage three times (per life) above 40% HP with a 50% chance with Fleeting Illusion. So if he gets a a heavy nuke in his face, he'll have a 50% chance of surviving with one HP. Pretty good, especially because it adds up to his beefyness.

    Vanguard grants Cloud 100% True Doublehand. What's the difference between Doublehand and True Doublehand?
    Doublehand only works on one-handed weapons like Onion Sword. But True Doublehand works on both two-handed weapons (like the new TMR from Conrad) and one-handed, but @TLA made a more specific thread about that. You can find it here. This is a big deal, especially with other TMRs.

    So, Cloud will have massive ATK with a single weapon. And counters only take one hand as damage, so his counters would deal good damage. That's why he's got Fighting Instinct. Cloud has a 30% chance to counter all attacks with a normal attack, get lucky and crit which will end up to decent counter damage. Free damage, free LB crysts.

    Omnislaaaash! His Limit Burst is Omnislash, his most iconic move from the FFVII game! And it has such a stupid modifier. On the max lvl it takes 30 LB crysts to get, has 15 hits but.... It has a 2100% modifier! His last finishing hit also is ~1/3 of the total mod, so that'll be an estimated 700% mod you will get. Of course, the other hits still hurt, but that's the one you are going to chain cap with Cloud.
    His LB also gets supported through Agressive, which grants him 3 LB crysts per turn. This will help more than you think at first glance!

    Moving on to his active abilities, he has three different ones that stand somewhat out from each other.

    The first one beng Cross Slash. It's only a 300% modifier but has an 80% chance to paralyze the enemy, great for beginners as Cloud gets this ability already on lvl 16 and most enemies in story content can be paralyzed. But not much usage outside of that.

    Meteor Rain is a 360% modifier with 8 hits and can perfectly chain with a dupe. Do note that Cloud doesn't use Dualwield. Basically this isn't the best ability for him but it's nice to have it in case you lack any sort of chainers or anything. But let's come to his best active ability...

    Climhazzard, a 550% mod 1-Hit with really fast frames. This is super easy to finish and quite powerful if you factor in Cloud's super high ATK with a good build! Nothing much more to say to that as it's only damage.


    Cons:
    Cloud has cons and I am disappointed that he did not get a global buff.
    Let's start with the obvious.

    Cloud only has 30% ATK passives. Yes, you will see later that he reaches high ATK, but 30% ATK passives is just.... disappointing in a way. It's definitely a big drop from what he could have. Some lost potential here, but it's not the worst.

    Did you notice something? Cloud exclusively has damage moves. He has absolute NO supportive moves, no versatility, only damage. This can be a big issue if you want to use a unit's ability for instance Veritas of the Flame's imperils or Nyx's Breaks or something like this. Not even having the option can be quite unappealling.

    Cloud's modifiers besides his Limit Burst are a bit low. This will be a big reason for his position in the meta as you will see later on in the unit comparison. Climhazzard "only" is a 550% move and Meteor Rain basically becomes a really bad chain move because it's a mere 360% mod. Climhazzard is alright for now, but Meteor Rain is surprisingly low.

    And now talking about Omnislash. It's a great move, don't get me wrong. It deals insane damage. But notice the high LB costs with no hightides? Luckily his build path will make it easier to get, but it's still very costly. You will get it within 3-4 turns most of the times.


    Side-Notes:
    Cloud has enhancements in JP AND a 7* version
    .
    And again, Cloud doesn't get much love. He still only brings damage to the table and while it's quite decent damage nowadays, since he is relatively new, it's not the best you will have as an option. There are some better units regarding pure damage.
    He still remains his massive bulkyness, but I predict him to drop out of the meta sometimes soon unless we get 7* enhancements in JP.
    Regarding his future proofness, he's just pure damage and thus every unit who deals more than him will immediately outclass him. Cloud will remain an overall good unit, just not the best.


    Best in Slot:
    We have a few different builds here for non-elemental damage and some elemental builds.
    Revolving Chainsaw (130 ATK, two handed, ~1.3x average damage variance)
    Prishe's Hairpin (45 ATK)
    Goken TMR (20 ATK)
    2x Elfreeda TMR (80 ATK, 100% True Doublehand, +4 LB Crysts)
    Buster Style (100% True Doublehand)
    Large Sword Mastery
    Proud Fencer
    Adventurer 5

    ATK with Bahamut:
    1668
    Dandelga (130 ATK)
    or Glauca TMR (125 ATK)
    or Guromu / Cecil TMR (120 ATK)

    Prishe's Hairpin (45 ATK)
    Goken TMR (20 ATK)
    2x Elfreeda TMR (80 ATK, 100% True Doublehand, +4 LB Crysts)
    Buster Style (100% True Doublehand)
    Large Sword Mastery
    Proud Fencer
    Adventurer 5

    ATK with Bahamut:
    1668 ATK (Dandelga, Fire)
    1648 ATK (Glauca TMR, Dark)
    1628 ATK (Guromu/Cecil TMR, Thunder/Holy)
    Brotherhood (135 ATK)
    Prishe's Hairpin (45 ATK)
    Goken TMR (20 ATK)
    2x Elfreeda TMR (80 ATK, 100% True Doublehand, +4 LB Crysts)
    Buster Style (100% True Doublehand)
    Adventurer 5
    2x Quick Assault

    ATK with Bahamut:
    1610 ATK


    Arena:
    Cloud
    can be quite good here. With True Doublehand you gain a lot of accuracy, making it able to hit 100% evasion units with physical attacks! Thus, if you are high in the Arena Ladder and want to use him, go for it. He has huge HP, status ailment protection and high accuracy. Cloud also has an AoE move.


    DISCLAIMER:
    Veritas of the Flames and Nyx both have new BiS builds with Fixed Dice and the True Doublehand TMRs! Both builds will take Fixed Dice into account. Dark Knight Cecil will use the new introduced Conrad TMR + TDH TMRs.


    Cloud [​IMG] VS [​IMG] Veritas of the Flame
    • Cloud has way higher base ATK and 10% higher ATK passives
    • Cloud has overall way higher stats
    • Cloud has innate 100% TDH
    • Veritas of the Flame is using Fixed Dice
    • Veritas of the Flame can imbue 4 elements while imperiling
    • Cloud can't imbue elements
    • Both have good status ailment protection
    • Cloud has higher mods innately
    • Veritas of the Flame has way higher mods with his Uplift counters
    • Veritas of the Flame has decent supportive aspects
    Fixed Dice already makes Veritas of the Flame gain a massive boost in damage. But now it'll be able to utilise 200% TDH with the right build and thus makes Veritas of the Flame even better.
    Now, Cloud has higher base modifiers with his massive Omnislash and Climhazzard, but Uplift counters from Veritas of the Flame are quite common and grant him a 1 turn move that has a 1000% mod! And on top of that, Veritas of the Flame can infuse 4 elements, imperil at the same time and counter with 100% fire imperils.
    Here are the maths:
    Assuming Cloud has his LB every three turns:

    Turn 1: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 5.5 x 4 = 79,571,606
    Turn 2: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 5.5 x 4= 79,571,606
    Turn 3: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 7 x 4 + 1668^2 x 1.3 x 14 = 151,909,430

    Damage per turn: 103,684,214
    _____________________________________________________
    Assuming Cloud has his LB every fourth turn:
    Turn 1: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 5.5 x 4 = 79,571,606
    Turn 2: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 5.5 x 4= 79,571,606
    Turn 3: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 5.5 x 4= 79,571,606
    Turn 4: 1668^2 x 1.3 x 7 x 4 + 1668^2 x 1.3 x 14 = 151,909,430

    DPT: 97,656,062
    If you want to use a higher or worse Imperil, just exchange the element modifier. I will assume a 50% one and take a look at the Dandelga build.

    Turn 1: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 5.5 x 4 = 91,813,392
    Turn 2: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 5.5 x 4 = 91,813,392
    Turn 3: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 7 x 4 + 1668^2 x 1.5 x 14 = 175,980,672

    DPT: 119,869,152
    _____________________________________________________
    Assuming Cloud has his LB every fourth turn:
    Turn 1: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 5.5 x 4 = 91,813,392
    Turn 2: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 5.5 x 4 = 91,813,392
    Turn 3: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 5.5 x 4 = 91,813,392
    Turn 4: 1668^2 x 1.5 x 7 x 4 + 1668^2 x 1.5 x 14 = 175,980,672

    DPT: 112,855,212
    Best in Slot ATK with Bahamut: 856 ATK
    Not assuming we get the 100% imperil counter, but the Uplift twice in a 5 turn rotation. On off turns, we use Heavy Stomp and on turn 1, we are using one of his four element moves.
    Also doesn't include other stronger imperils.

    Turn 1: 856^2 x 3.85 x 3 x 4 = 33,852,403
    Turn 2: 856^2 x 3.85 x 5 x 4 x 1.5 = 84,631,008
    Turn 3: 856^2 x 3.85 x 10 x 4 x 1.5 = 169,262,016
    Turn 4: 856^2 x 3.85 x 5 x 4 x 1.5 = 84,631,008
    Turn 5: 856^2 x 3.85 x 10 x 4 x 1.5 = 169,262,016

    DPT per Rotation: 108,327,690
    ________________________________________________
    Assuming we get the 100% imperil counter on Turn 3 and use fire element.

    Turn 1: 856^2 x 3.85 x 3 x 4 = 33,852,403
    Turn 2: 856^2 x 3.85 x 5 x 4 x 1.5 = 84,631,008
    Turn 3: 856^2 x 3.85 x 10 x 4 x 1.5 = 169,262,016
    Turn 4: 856^2 x 3.85 x 5 x 4 x 2 = 112,841,344
    Turn 5: 856^2 x 3.85 x 10 x 4 x 2 = 225,682,688

    DPT per Rotation: 125,253,892
    As you see, doing damage calculations with Veritas of the Flames is very hard due to his RNG counters. If you get lucky, he will outdamage Cloud by A LOT, if not he will lose by a little. So it's RNG dependant in that case, especially because Fixed Dice can deal either massive damage or mediocre damage. I just took the average roll.
    Mostly Fire Veritas performs better because of the element variety and the innate imperils and such. And Cloud has to get his LB every 3 turns to averagely outdamage him.
    So for that, Veritas of the Flame wins due to versatility and possible higher DPS.



    Cloud [​IMG] VS [​IMG] Nyx
    • Cloud has higher base ATK and 10% higher ATK passives
    • Cloud has way higher overall stats
    • Cloud has innate 100% TDH
    • Nyx has innate 30% phys evasion
    • Both have good status ailment resistances
    • Nyx can imbue Fire while dealing damage
    • Nyx has overall higher mods than Cloud
    • Nyx has strong breaks with decent damage
    What the heck, let's jump right into the maths. For Cloud's, look above.
    BiS ATK with Bahamut: 911 ATK

    I will assume, just like with Cloud's element route, that you will use a 50% fire imperil.

    Turn 1: 911^2 x 3.85 x 4 x 4 = 51,123,134
    Turn 2: 911^2 x 3.85 x 7.5 x 1.5 x 4 = 143,783,813
    Turn 3: 911^2 x 3.85 x 7.5 x 1.5 x 4 = 143,783,813
    Turn 4: 911^2 x 3.85 x 7.5 x 1.5 x 4 = 143,783,813
    Turn 5: 911^2 x 3.85 x 7.5 x 1.5 x 4 = 143,783,813

    DPT: 125,251,677
    And with that, we can see Nyx consistently deals more damage than Cloud even with Cloud's every 3 Turn LB + element BiS with Dandelga.
    So not much to say here, Nyx wins. And he's still very versatile.



    Cloud [​IMG] VS [​IMG] Enhanced Dark Knight Cecil
    • Cloud has higher base ATK but 40% less ATK passives
    • Cloud has overall way higher stats
    • Cloud has innate 100% TDH
    • DKC has innate dark element
    • DKC has innate 100% Dark imperil
    • DKC regens to max health at the end of the turn
    • DKC loses 60% max health from Souleater+2
    • DKC has higher base modifiers
    Now, keep in mind that Dark is a bad element due to many bosses having a resistance against it. But I won't include that into the comparison.
    BiS ATK with Bahamut: 1413

    Turn 1: 1413^2 x 1.3 x 7.5 x 4 = 77,866,191
    Turn 2: 1413^2 x 1.3 x 7.5 x 4 x 2 = 155,732,382

    With 50% dark resistance: 116,799,286

    DPT after Turn 1: 155,732,382
    AS you can see, e.DKC deals MASSIVE damage, even more than Nyx. Because of his 100% dark imperil, the damage in his second turn is just outstanding. The issue with DKC however is, that he deals dark damage only and often enough bosses have at least a 50% resistance. Thus he would be worse than all the previous options.
    So if the boss is not resistant to dark, use DKC!


    Trust Master Reward:
    All the above comparisons took Cloud's TMR into account and let me say this: This is one of the absolute best TMRs ever and STILL IS in JP even with Super TMR system etc. Grab it INSTANTLY lol. Also, it's great on Nyx, FV, Tidus, Cloud, Randi, etc.


    Conclusion:
    Cloud is a very boring, but effective unit
    .
    He has massive stats allround, amazing passives and traits, but he has absolutely no versatility in his kit.
    Cloud wants to spam his Limit Burst and just be a finisher. He can somewhat chain LB's with two Clouds for funsies, but it's not the most consistent team you will be able to find out there.
    Outside of that, Cloud is still in the Top 3 Finishers (#3) and shares this massive TMR which enables to gain such ridiculous powers.
    100% go for him even if only for the TMR. He's still a high DPS unit and thus nostalgia reasons are acceptable by all means.

    Character Design: 4/10
    Sprite: 9.5/10
    Finisher: 9/10
    Chainer: 5-6/10
    Trust Master Reward: 10/10
    Arena: 7/10
    Limit Burst: 9/10
    Free 2 Play: 9.5/10
    Pay 2 Play: 9/10
    Personal Rating: 8.5/10
    Optimal Rating: 9/10

    [On-Banner Reviews]
    [​IMG] Elfreeda (5*)
    [​IMG] William (4*)

    That's it! I am sorry if I might have dropped your hype for Cloud, but I want to keep his hype at a realistic level. I'd use Cloud because I really liked FFVII, but I also love Nyx due to Kingsglaive etc.

    Memel0rd out
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  2. Mcleod

    Mcleod Retired - Immortal0rd VIP Supporter

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    Are you calling cloud boring!?

    Seriously, he's cloud nothing else needed... Hypetrain choo choo!
     
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  3. Nemeko

    Nemeko Ascended Member

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    Still hate Cloud, if they put him in a dress though, then you got something.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    I'm still hyped for him, knew he isnt the best for a long time already, so no need to puss out now!
     
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  5. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    oh ma gad
     
  6. Arnatuile

    Arnatuile Wolf of Lapis Street. Proud Evade user. Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    Damn, I really need to pot my Nyx.
     
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  7. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    He deals massive damage, am I right? :D
     
  8. Arnatuile

    Arnatuile Wolf of Lapis Street. Proud Evade user. Staff Member Moderator VIP Supporter

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    Yep, it's just that FV is way more versatile for elements, so I have found myself using him mostly (in the rare cases where I use a finisher).
     
  9. Barroth

    Barroth Excessivlipoor VIP Supporter

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    Is his bis really goken tmr and PF over demon mail and SSD?
     
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  10. Barroth

    Barroth Excessivlipoor VIP Supporter

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    But he's so ugly. Randi for the win
     
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  11. Dotyekill

    Dotyekill Well-Known Member

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    This....
    He's cloud nothing more to say:D
     
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  12. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Yes.
    20 ATK from Goken is a total of 80 ATK
    Demon Mail is a total of 40 ATK

    Now, SSD grants 20 ATK, so 38~39 ATK. SO basically it's better by like 1-2 points of ATK.
     
  13. Renko

    Renko "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    im still not sure if i wanna pull here because i need at least two rainbows to make it work::rudecat4::
     
  14. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    Just flip a coin
     
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  15. PlusKun

    PlusKun Ascended Member

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    And how much in other stats is lost for that 1-2 ATK? I know ATK is the only stat that matters but humor me.
     
  16. LAFORGUS

    LAFORGUS "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    Me here/....
    OMG Another Waifu!

    I call Apron Dress on Cloud!!

    Alright,

    Cloud is my DH successor (after Olive) if i get him he will receive the tittle of DH Finisher, since is a build that doesn't collide(need equipments from) with my chainer/mage builds.

    Of course... if i get him...


    Thanks for review Memes!

    ps: remove Mustache guy!
     
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  17. Memel0rd

    Memel0rd Unil0rd Staff Member Administrator Forum Manager VIP Supporter Arena Runner-Up S1

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    You lose some def but also gain 20% (or 15%) MP and SPR iirc
     
  18. LAFORGUS

    LAFORGUS "Hall of Fame" Member Supporter

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    I see your comparative of Cloud and Nyx, i already got a Nyx.... maybe.. should i gear up Nyx?

    I should give a visit to that review... BTW memes, next time you compare, Link the other unit's review please!
     
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  19. Kingguss

    Kingguss LONG LIVE THE KING! VIP Supporter

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    Holy shit.
     
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  20. Luciella

    Luciella VIP VIP Supporter Monthly Arena Champ S1

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    Your 7 star Tidus will love both Cloud and Elfreeda's TMR :)
    I hope my pull favors Elfreeda vs Cloud and get least 4 Elfreeda and 1 Cloud (just 1 Cloud because Dark Knight Cecil's STMR is better version of Cloud TMR... and I can most likely get 2 or 3 of his STMR by the time it comes out in GL).
     
    Memnarchon, Scheich, Xander and 4 others like this.

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